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Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
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cbkev Offline
Break-In Period

Toronto
Posts: 40
Joined: Apr 2017
Post: #1
Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
Not overly in depth but interesting non the less...

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/ne...-explained
07-22-2017 11:45 AM
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Cormanus Online
Moderator

Queensland, Australia
Posts: 10,732
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #2
RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
Thanks cbkev.
07-23-2017 02:28 PM
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Noleshot Offline
Break-In Period

Florida
Posts: 9
Joined: May 2016
Post: #3
RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
So, in 2020 with Euro5, air-cooled engines will be impractical to produce. How long before water-cooled engines succumb? Will electric motors/batteries excite cyclists in a decade, and how affordable will they be? I'm going to pamper my CB and hope The Man doesn't come for it at some future date. Hmmm. I wonder what Sharia has to say about Euro emissions.....
07-25-2017 04:38 AM
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Bar None Offline
Break-In Period

WNC SWFL
Posts: 18
Joined: Sep 2017
Post: #4
RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
Interesting article about the death of air cooled motorcycles. Need to buy several to store away. I prefer air cooled motorcycles.

Vince
2014 Honda CB1100 Custom
2015 Ural cT
01-14-2018 11:59 AM
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use2b Offline
Running Like a Top

Perdido Key Florida
Posts: 647
Joined: Aug 2016
Post: #5
RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
Thanks CBkev was a good read , but learned i am also hydrophobic ....

The best part about growing up in Florida is i didn't have to move here when i got old.
2013 CB1100AD K10
01-14-2018 01:26 PM
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Bheezy27403 Offline
1st Service Completed

Triad NC
Posts: 205
Joined: Sep 2015
Post: #6
RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
(07-25-2017 04:38 AM)Noleshot Wrote:  So, in 2020 with Euro5, air-cooled engines will be impractical to produce. How long before water-cooled engines succumb? Will electric motors/batteries excite cyclists in a decade, and how affordable will they be? I'm going to pamper my CB and hope The Man doesn't come for it at some future date. Hmmm. I wonder what Sharia has to say about Euro emissions.....


The Man or Sharia can come and try....got bad news for 'em.
01-14-2018 01:42 PM
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Flynrider Offline
Road Warrior

Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,574
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #7
RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
The CB1100 was proof that Euro 4 could be attained with air cooled technology, with the knowledge that air cooling would bring a horsepower penalty (compared to liquid cooled engines of similar displacement). Honda not only put cooling fins around the spark plugs, but also included oil passages to carry away the excess heat from spark plug region of the cylinder head.

I think the engineers did about as much as could be done to make decent power, yet still pass Euro 4. Like the author, I also think that air cooled engines will be unlikely when Euro 5 takes effect. It might be technically possible, but you'd end up with really big engines that make very little power for their size.

Phoenix, AZ
2013 CB1100 - Big Red
1993 CB750 Nighthawk - Tahitian Blue
01-14-2018 11:22 PM
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Ulvetanna Offline
High Mileage

USA
Posts: 1,463
Joined: Apr 2016
Post: #8
RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
I don't think anyone dreamed Honda would ever produce a bike like the CB1100, and yet they did. It's an anachronism, but they made it work, and are continuing to make it work with every new set of regulations.

Let's all remember that these are motorcycles, they are at the bottom of the food chain with respect to current locomotion technology. So it is a matter of economic will on the part of any marque to move forward with a machine that requires more advanced technology to look older!

BMW continues to manufacture air-cooled twins producing 125 HP from 1200 cc's, and these are twins, which present a few more challenges in terms of peak HP (RPM limitations). This boxer design had its origins in aircraft engines of early 20th century. Darn good design, too.

No, the predictions of the demise of the air-cooled engine are greatly exaggerated. Similar claims were made for two-cycle and diesel engines, and now look at what we have.

Technology makes all these things possible, if not practicable. But if the buyer is willing to pay more for an air-cooled bike, the technology is certainly there for the taking already.

2013 CB1100 Standard. July 2013 to December 2016, 10,500 miles. Low bars, Ikon shocks. Gone to a good home, I hope.Thumbs Up
01-15-2018 10:13 AM
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W/R Offline
1st Service Completed

New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 195
Joined: May 2017
Post: #9
RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
So how does BMW coax 125hp on an air cooled motor but the CB1100 is sub 90hp?

Is it because of the design - 2 cylinders both hanging out in the breeze as opposed to a tightly packed I4?

2014 CB1100A
2009 Buell Ulysses XB12XT
2007 CRF450X
2003 HD Night Train with sidecar
01-15-2018 11:49 AM
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Ulvetanna Offline
High Mileage

USA
Posts: 1,463
Joined: Apr 2016
Post: #10
RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
(01-15-2018 11:49 AM)W/R Wrote:  So how does BMW coax 125hp on an air cooled motor but the CB1100 is sub 90hp?

Is it because of the design - 2 cylinders both hanging out in the breeze as opposed to a tightly packed I4?
First, design. Tolerances between components must be very exact to ensure proper sealing, and proper heat transfer, for the pistons, cylinders, and valve train.

Second, materials. The materials must be able to withstand higher heat and pressure for longer periods of time.

Last, intent. If Honda or any other marque wanted to get 125 HP out of an air-cooled I4, they'd be doing it. The CB1100 is ~1140cc, the old BMW R1150 was 1130 cc. They both make about 85 HP (crankshaft, of course).

When BMW went to the R1200GS, the power increased to 109 HP at the crank, with 1170cc's, hardly any more displacement than the CB1100.

The latest R1200R Roadster makes 125 HP at the crank from the same 1170 cc's. And that's a twin. I4's can usually make more HP because they can spin much faster. Not so the CB1100, its redline is very low, really about the same as the BMW's.

Cooling isn't an issue, there is plenty of airflow over the front of an inline four.

So it really comes down to intent, since Honda certainly have the technical resources to build an 1100 cc I4 producing 120 HP.

The final question is why don't they? Probably because air-cooled bikes making that kind of heat and power still present durability and reliability issues that are very easily resolved by introducing liquid-cooling into the design.

I was going to sit back and eat popcorn but the intelligent and thoughtful questions are just too hard to resist. And I was planning on cutting back on my screen time. Undecided

2013 CB1100 Standard. July 2013 to December 2016, 10,500 miles. Low bars, Ikon shocks. Gone to a good home, I hope.Thumbs Up
01-16-2018 09:43 AM
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