Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
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Cormanus
Moderator
Queensland, Australia
Posts: 20,659
Joined: Dec 2013
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RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
A water cooled CB1100 would not be a deal breaker for me, although I can’t imagine it would be as pretty as it’s ancestors. I’m also a big fan of the CB1300.
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01-17-2018 01:58 PM |
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peterbaron
Lives On Two Wheels
ON, Canada
Posts: 9,142
Joined: Jan 2016
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RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
(01-17-2018 01:58 PM)Cormanus Wrote: A water cooled CB1100 would not be a deal breaker for me, although I can’t imagine it would be as pretty as it’s ancestors. I’m also a big fan of the CB1300.
+1
but if I see both beside each other, I would make my decision which one to keep (if only one)
pb
"Drop a gear and disappear"®
'14 CB1100 DLX-#170 ® 26K kms (FOX - pleasure horse)
'14 CB1100/ABS ® 113K kms (MYSHOL - white draft horse)
'13 CB1100/c-ABS - 56K kms - sold
*Grand Chancellor*
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2018 09:59 AM by peterbaron.)
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01-18-2018 09:58 AM |
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DaSwami
Running Like a Top
Northwest Montana (again!)
Posts: 467
Joined: Jun 2015
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RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
No water cooled bikes for me, ever.
The XJR1300, wish they sold it here, I've been ogling that bike for years.
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05-18-2018 08:21 PM |
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2017EX
Running Like a Top
U.S.A.
Posts: 413
Joined: Jul 2017
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RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
I tend to look at this issue from perhaps a slightly different prospective. Before getting into it, I am reminded of a comedians joke on muscle cars. Paraphrasing him, it basically went like this: "Why is it necessary to build a 100K, 500 HP. super car that will go from 0 to 60 in 3 seconds, for a 110 pound blond to drive around town to get her nails done?". What a car like that could do, was not needed for the enjoyment and/or purpose it is used for. Unless I greatly mis understood some of the points of the article, the issue is complying with emissions, resulting in either going to liquid cooling, or going to impractically larger air cooled engines with lower HP. The question for me here that was not posed in the article is, suppose existing air cooled displacements were lowered in HP. as a by product of tuning in order to satisfy emissions? Could there, would there, still be adequate HP. to satisfy enjoyment/purpose?
I certainly would not dispute the increased heat control efficiency of liquid cooling. However, one question for me related to HP. in a motorcycle always has been how much is enough for the purpose in order to get full enjoyment for that given purpose? To keep it simple we are only talking about the street here. As many of us have, my first bike back in 1967 was small displacement two stroke, 80cc, 7.3 HP.. It got me where I wanted to go, but the annoyances were constant downshifting on hills of any size, way under powered for two up, and a one up top speed of only around 50 mph.,... maybe. As time went on I upgraded in displacement/power to satisfy purpose and enjoyment.
My longtime friend and fellow Forum member, Jim, had one of the first Sand Cast Honda CB750 Fours in 1970. We all felt it had plenty of power for road trips, two up, or anything else. At the time I had a Suzuki 500cc Titan twin two stroke. One of Suzukis marketing points back then was that the Titan had as much power as a Volkswagen Beetle, 50 HP.! In 1974 I bought my own CB750. I got it on the freeway and took it up to 105 mph. before I had to back off the throttle for fear of being blown off the bike. Aside from enough HP. to satisfy purpose, I suppose one of my points here is to think about motorcycle laden power to weight ratio.
I had a Harley CVO 1600cc V Twin for the 10 years prior to my CB ( Harley never published HP.). In order to satisfy California emissions, Harleys are set up from the factory lean, which means they run HOT. In addition, the rear cylinder of the V Twin gets less air flow than the CB I4, over the cooling fins. Then as to weight, my particular Harley was a little over 200 lbs. heavier than the CB1100. More weight generally means more HP. to move it, which frequently means bigger displacement. It also meant that it handled like a tank at slower speeds, around town, and more tedious to get out of the garage to go for a ride.
As pointed out in the article, and in the CB1100 development articles Honda Japan, the purpose of the CB1100 aside from nostalgia is total enjoyment, not brute HP... I think we can all agree Honda succeeded at that purpose, and that it has plenty of power to do what we want to do. Then too, although more efficient in heat management, liquid cooling has its own maintenance challenges. Granted liquid cooling has come a long way since the problems experienced by the 1970s model Suzuki Water Buffalo, I have also seen other cyclists despair at the consequences of leaving a modern liquid cooled bike sit unused for too long. That is not to say there are not consequences for letting an air cooled bike sit too long either.
Bottom line for me is this: I prefer the nostalgia and comparative simplicity of an air cooled engine. Provided it still had adequate HP. to satisfy my enjoyment and purpose, I would be willing to sacrifice some HP. if necessary, to stay with an air cooled engine that satisfied emissions. That is just me, and I respect "to each his own", and/or differing opinions on the subject.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2018 11:35 AM by 2017EX.)
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05-19-2018 11:31 AM |
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LongRanger
Been There
Evergreen, CO
Posts: 4,220
Joined: Aug 2015
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RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
I test-drove a Porsche 718 Cayman today. Water-cooled 2.0 liter boxer four-cylinder with twin turbos. Wow. 300 hp from 2.0 liters is amazing. The purists continually deride the new engine and say if a Porsche doesn't have an air-cooled boxer six, it isn't a Porsche. Fact is, this thing makes considerably more torque and hp than the previous 2.7 liter six cylinder and gets better fuel economy too. I'm certainly fine with that. Now, where did I leave my wallet?
Ride more. Worry less.
‘12 BMW R1200R Classic
'15 BMW R1200RT
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05-19-2018 04:29 PM |
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Banned
Banned
earth
Posts: 644
Joined: May 2017
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RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
(05-19-2018 04:29 PM)LongRanger Wrote: I test-drove a Porsche 718 Cayman today. Water-cooled 2.0 liter boxer four-cylinder with twin turbos. Wow. 300 hp from 2.0 liters is amazing. The purists continually deride the new engine and say if a Porsche doesn't have an air-cooled boxer six, it isn't a Porsche. Fact is, this thing makes considerably more torque and hp than the previous 2.7 liter six cylinder and gets better fuel economy too. I'm certainly fine with that. Now, where did I leave my wallet?
Well, if it gets better fuel economy then you can't afford not to buy it.
Of course if have enough money in your wallet to buy a Cayman I doubt very much you are all that concerned about fuel economy in the first place.
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05-19-2018 06:14 PM |
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alprider
High Mileage
CH
Posts: 1,342
Joined: Aug 2017
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RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
desing for my eyes is the only one important thing........the 4 wonderful doublewall chromepipes of the DLX// EX........ is that thing.... " combinatet " with a fine basical classic line.......a big watercooler would disturb only some the classic line........and would cover in our case a fine designed engine too....
my honda VTX 1300S had a wonderful design of V-twin engine.....nice fins design nice chromepipes with a fine tank look large spokewheels , big fenders .....the sideview was just absolut superrrrr. (and fat)...........the watercooler was never in your main viewfield...hint discret
or the modern bonneville...design is all for me....
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2018 11:36 PM by alprider.)
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05-19-2018 10:54 PM |
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alprider
High Mileage
CH
Posts: 1,342
Joined: Aug 2017
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RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
byside from design : what cares me the base technique of the engine....if is the torque and power ok....
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2018 12:34 AM by alprider.)
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05-20-2018 12:16 AM |
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The ferret
Forum Moderator
Ohio
Posts: 31,277
Joined: Apr 2013
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RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
(05-19-2018 04:29 PM)LongRanger Wrote: I test-drove a Porsche 718 Cayman today. Water-cooled 2.0 liter boxer four-cylinder with twin turbos. Wow. 300 hp from 2.0 liters is amazing. The purists continually deride the new engine and say if a Porsche doesn't have an air-cooled boxer six, it isn't a Porsche. Fact is, this thing makes considerably more torque and hp than the previous 2.7 liter six cylinder and gets better fuel economy too. I'm certainly fine with that. Now, where did I leave my wallet?
What? Giving up on the Altima? lol
.
Defender of the Realm
2014 DLX (the pleasure horse)
2021 NC750X DCT (Angry Bird)
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05-20-2018 09:50 AM |
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LongRanger
Been There
Evergreen, CO
Posts: 4,220
Joined: Aug 2015
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RE: Air-Cooling Technology vs Euro4 (Bennetts)
I'd keep the Altima for the winters, but probably sell all the bikes except for the RT. Who knows. Sometimes, when you buy stuff, you don't own it, it owns you. I'm trying to approach this cautiously and realistically. Truth be told, I wouldn't mind just paring down to two bikes -- the CB and the RT, and call it good.
Ride more. Worry less.
‘12 BMW R1200R Classic
'15 BMW R1200RT
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05-20-2018 10:40 AM |
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