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Kawasaki Z900RS
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The ferret Offline
Forum Moderator

Ohio
Posts: 31,282
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #401
RE: Kawasaki Z900RS
Other countries aren’t waiting for consumers to make the move. At least four countries intend to go 100 percent zero-emissions vehicles — which could mean either BEVs or hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles:


Norway has laid out the most aggressive plans. It wants to get there by 2025. It helps that a full 24 percent of the vehicles sold in this oil-rich nation already are battery-electric
India wants to get all of its vehicles switched to battery power by 2030 — and that means it not only wants to end the sale of internal combustion vehicles but convert or replace all other vehicles already on the road by the end of the next decade, a goal few see possible
The Netherlands already has a relatively high EV sales rate, about 6 percent of its total new vehicles, but it has yet to formally lock down a switch to electric vehicles some would like to implement by as early as 2025
Germany may also push to end sales of gas and diesel cars by 2030, but there is strong opposition, especially since half of its electricity comes from coal. Yet German automakers are launching major drives to electrify and that could help build momentum for a switch

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/t...el-n781431

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Defender of the Realm
2014 DLX (the pleasure horse)
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02-25-2018 01:24 PM
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rotor Offline
Running Like a Top

Western Canada
Posts: 342
Joined: Apr 2015
Post: #402
RE: Kawasaki Z900RS
It's not the engine, it's the energy transfer...
mickey Wrote:Europe is leading the way to that end by banning the mfg of new ICE vehicles (both motorcycle and car) in their countries starting as early as 2025 or 2030 in Denmark and Norway, and 2040 in Britain and most other Euro countries.

This is not how it will play out. To replace the internal combustion engine power plant in a road vehicle with an electric motor is cheap and simple; what is nowhere near as simple and will never be economically viable is to replace our current system of the transfer of energy from the terrestrial infrastructure to the moving platform (i.e., pouring fuel...) with an in-situ chemical reaction on a device that is part of the vehicle.

(Topic drift, fair warning...:)
Which is why, if the intent of those governments was not temporary placating lunatic environ-fringe, but finding a workable solution to a hypothetical problem, they would be putting in place a commercial and regulative framework for an international, industry-standardized electrical accumulator ("battery") device; so that the energy-bearing mass could be swapped in a mater of seconds or minutes, not operated on ("charged") in a matter of hours. (Elon Musk would not be amused... :)

(Sign of the Times: "tesla car" gets over 5 million google hits, "Nikola Tesla" less than one million).
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2018 02:17 PM by rotor.)
02-25-2018 01:46 PM
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Acrobat Offline
1st Service Completed

Chios, Greece
Posts: 88
Joined: Dec 2017
Post: #403
RE: Kawasaki Z900RS
(02-25-2018 01:46 PM)rotor Wrote:  It's not the engine, it's the energy transfer...
mickey Wrote:Europe is leading the way to that end by banning the mfg of new ICE vehicles (both motorcycle and car) in their countries starting as early as 2025 or 2030 in Denmark and Norway, and 2040 in Britain and most other Euro countries.

This is not how it will play out. To replace the internal combustion engine power plant in a road vehicle with an electric motor is cheap and simple; what is nowhere near as simple and will never be economically viable is to replace our current system of the transfer of energy from the terrestrial infrastructure to the moving platform (i.e., pouring fuel...) with an in-situ chemical reaction on a device that is part of the vehicle.

(Topic drift, fair warning...Smile
Which is why, if the intent of those governments was not temporary placating lunatic environ-fringe, but finding a workable solution to a hypothetical problem, they would be putting in place a commercial and regulative framework for an international, industry-standardized electrical accumulator ("battery") device; so that the energy-bearing mass could be swapped in a mater of seconds or minutes, not operated on ("charged") in a matter of hours. (Elon Musk would not be amused... Smile

(Sign of the Times: "tesla car" gets over 5 million google hits, "Nikola Tesla" less than one million).

You are right, look at this

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news...ed-battery
02-25-2018 02:47 PM
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Cormanus Offline
Moderator

Queensland, Australia
Posts: 20,660
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #404
RE: Kawasaki Z900RS
(02-25-2018 01:46 PM)rotor Wrote:  Which is why, if the intent of those governments was not temporary placating lunatic environ-fringe, but finding a workable solution to a hypothetical problem, they would be putting in place a commercial and regulative framework for an international, industry-standardized electrical accumulator ("battery") device; so that the energy-bearing mass could be swapped in a mater of seconds or minutes, not operated on ("charged") in a matter of hours. (Elon Musk would not be amused... Smile

Seem to remember offering a similar proposal:

(05-03-2017 04:27 PM)Cormanus Wrote:  My prediction is that because the technology of batteries is improving all the time there will be more and more pressure for electric vehicles. That means there will be more pressure to solve the range problem given that it seems likely charging will continue to take quite a while.

The solution is relatively simple if government is prepared to get behind it: mandating a limited number of batteries for use in vehicles and requiring that it be really easy to swap them out. Battery stations will then begin to replace petrol stations or petrol stations will stock batteries that they can charge and then swap for customers. You pull into the station and replace a flattened battery with a charged one and head on.

... and having it roundly debunked:

(05-12-2017 07:28 PM)rotor Wrote:  No government is likely to do that. Why? Because the aforementioned incremental improvements in the battery technology. It is obvious that the battery technology has a long way to go if the vehicle range problem is to be solved, and standardizing the battery would be detrimental to the progress of the battery technology.

Reversible electro-chemical process as the method of storing energy in a moving vehicle is a fad, not a long-term transportation solution. One of these days there will be a clean-burning (or -decaying) solid "fuel" that will lend itself to the creation of a distribution and storage system similar to the present day liquid hydrocarbon system, but more efficient and creating less particulate pollution. It would also have to be economically competitive to hydrocarbon fuel. (What again is the cost of a Tesla car? Before the $18K apiece that is subsidized by tax-payers and naive investors!)

We will know that the revolution in transportation is imminent when we see railways switching to new technology.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2018 04:13 PM by Cormanus.)
02-25-2018 04:13 PM
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DAC Offline
High Mileage

Central Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,267
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #405
RE: Kawasaki Z900RS
The other problem is that increased market share of electro vehicles will create an imbalance in the hydrocarbon market resulting in huge price pressure on crude and its distillates. Unless governments step in and 1) thumb their noses at the oil lobby by 2) hugely taxing gasoline, the price will plummet. Even if no new ICE vehicles were being marketed, the used car vehicle would spike if gas prices dropped.

And this thread hasn't drifted at all.
02-25-2018 05:34 PM
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Houtman Offline
Been There

NC USA
Posts: 4,481
Joined: May 2013
Post: #406
RE: Kawasaki Z900RS
I love the gas engines in my Honda CRV"S , in less than 5 minutes fuel fill up I can drive easily another 400 miles.
02-25-2018 05:46 PM
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rotor Offline
Running Like a Top

Western Canada
Posts: 342
Joined: Apr 2015
Post: #407
RE: Kawasaki Z900RS
Battery technology progress. (If any).
I do not believe there is any real reason to replace internal combustion engine because of the CO2 emission, but I see every reason to clean it of particulate pollution even more than we managed to do so far. (To speak nothing of removing lead from fuel; something that was an obvious mistake to start with).

I am also not convinced we are making any substantial progress in electrical accumulator (i.e., "rechargeable battery") technology, but I see some logic for using battery powered personal transportation vehicle for intra-urban transportation in places where whatever progress we made in particulate emission reduction is obviously insufficient (Bangkok, Beijing..?). If I am proven wrong, i.e., if rechargeable battery technology reaches a point where such vehicles also become practical for inter-urban transportation, it will be a battery-swap instead of in-situ battery charge system. (The same is of course the case for the intra-urban transportation vehicles).

I admit that the argument on how would the move towards standardising the batteries influence the progress in battery technology is irrelevant, as it appears to me now that no substantial progress in that area is to be had. This, however, is an observe's, not an electrochemical expert's observation.
02-25-2018 06:24 PM
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Cormanus Offline
Moderator

Queensland, Australia
Posts: 20,660
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #408
RE: Kawasaki Z900RS
I suspect you're right, rotor. In the light of governments serving notice of a ban on internal combustion engines, it behoves them to do what they can to push the development of alternatives. I'd have thought replaceable batteries would work in largely urban or short-haul environments, but it will be a shambles (think, VHS, Beta, phone chargers) unless a government provides leadership and direction. I can't speak about any country other than Australia, where I think if I said that sort of leadership is highly unlikely it would be a truly monstrous understatement.
02-25-2018 07:31 PM
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LongRanger Offline
Been There

Evergreen, CO
Posts: 4,220
Joined: Aug 2015
Post: #409
RE: Kawasaki Z900RS
In my area, the state and local municipalities have switched their fleet to natural gas. I'm talking city busses, government vehicles, mail delivery vehicles, etc. Clean, inexpensive and abundant compared to gasoline and diesel.

The Colorado Dept of Transportation has been testing driverless (autonomous) semi trucks on the interstate, with good results. Not sure how I feel about that!

The concept of pulling into a charging station and swapping your battery for a fresh one, rather than taking the time to recharge it, sounds a lot like how retailers sell LP gas for personal use (BBQ's, heaters, etc.). Just bring in your empty tank and walk out with another one, pre filled and ready to go. Your old tank will be refilled and sold to the next guy.

Ride more. Worry less. Tongue
‘12 BMW R1200R Classic
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02-25-2018 08:09 PM
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EricSC Offline
New To The Forum

South Carolina
Posts: 2
Joined: Jun 2017
Post: #410
RE: Kawasaki Z900RS
Rode the Z900RS yesterday with the intention to trade my 2014 CB 1100. Funny thing is I like my CB better. Honestly. Guy was going to give me $5500 in trade and I couldn’t pull the trigger. Z is fast, folks. And much taller and upright-like over the forks upright. Soft brakes. Sport suspension is very stable at 80 mph. No reason at all not to take the deal except I think the CB is better on balance. I’m tall and need better suspension and seat. Otherwise, I love my bike. Just my $0.02.

Planning to upgrade to proper rear shocks and taller seat. Ohlin?
02-25-2018 08:15 PM
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