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2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
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EmptySea Offline
Lives On Two Wheels

Chicagoland, USA
Posts: 7,004
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #11
RE: 2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
OK, so your had my full attention right up to here:

My next impression, however, was a much cheerier "mickey is on crack!"

This, after hitting the throttle on Pleasant Grove Bl, and again as I merged onto Hwy 65. Nope, no sundials necessary here. This CB was plenty fast, regardless of the gear or rpm. Starting from zero, it accelerated briskly up to speed. Once up to speed, hitting the throttle in sixth jumped me forward just about the way I would expect such a motor to jump me forward. Dropping it into third and ripping up to redline, and repeating the procedure in fourth, it had zero problem racing up to 100 mph. In sixth, it accelerated from 70-100 with acceptable alacrity.


At this point you, still demonstrating no grasp of Mickey's original post about upper gear acceleration, lost credibility in my eyes, so I skimmed through the rest. I'll confine my critique of your critique to your comments about the bike being slow (and yet being fast):

I find it oddly insulting (odd because I shouldn't really care enough to feel insulted) that you view this bike as one that will "force you to slow down". First off, it won't. If anything, it being so smooth at high speed will lull you into riding faster than you think. Second, you just finished saying that the bike is "plenty fast" so maybe you mean that it doesn't get through turns fast enough...that's a user problem, not the bike's problem. I don't ride very well at all, but I can point to several people on this forum who do and while they would all tell you that it's not a sport bike, they would also tell you that they can get it through the twistiest set of turns quickly and effortlessly (except for some front end dipping on decel).

Three more things --

I think this bike may very well be a good bike for your touring needs. It has served me very will in mainly this capacity since I bought mine.

I would suggest getting a taller seat rather than lowering the pegs to avoid dragging the latter (also, remove the 'curb feelers')

I have long contended that the CB1100 does a few things exceptionally well, does most everything very well, and does nothing poorly.

MTC

"If you can’t go home again, at least you can enjoy the ride” — Peter Egan


2013 CB1100 non-abs
2013 CB1100 abs
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018 09:14 AM by EmptySea.)
01-15-2018 08:42 AM
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CA200 Offline
High Mileage

Madison Wi.
Posts: 831
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #12
RE: 2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
It was very interesting to read VLJs road report but I feel like I ride more like ferret or Nortoon. Our road conditions up here are much different, in the spring I don't even ride
the speed limit . There can be pot holes the size of kitchen sinks and pavement heaves
that look like ski jumps. As an example we just had 12 car pileup on our beltline during
our last cold snap because a very large piece of pavement "popped " up.
01-15-2018 09:25 AM
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Guth Offline
Forum Founder

Portland, OR
Posts: 3,918
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #13
RE: 2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
Good point kvdv on checking the tire pressure. I've never felt slow speed steering heavy at all. In fact it seems to me that this was one area that most reviewers in the press agreed on. But we all react to bikes differently and however heavy the steering might have seemed to VLJ it did not appear to be enough so to squelch his interest in the bike.

The other thing that I would note is that this motorcycle strikes me as being pretty sensitive to fine chain adjustments (and I know that I"m not the only one here that's experienced this). Keeping the chain adjusted towards the low end of the recommended range makes a big difference in how it shifts.

The Honda CB1100: STILL air-COOLed
Deposit placed 11/12/2012.
Received delivery 04/05/2013.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018 09:29 AM by Guth.)
01-15-2018 09:28 AM
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alprider Offline
High Mileage

CH
Posts: 1,342
Joined: Aug 2017
Post: #14
RE: 2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
VLJ

i guess ....somehow I can not let go of the feeling

from that point wehre you start with cruising comfortable of conviction with your yahama are too you too realy ripe to drive our CB....for which it was built / for the form where it was built
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018 10:36 AM by alprider.)
01-15-2018 10:19 AM
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VLJ Offline
High Mileage

California
Posts: 905
Joined: Sep 2017
Post: #15
RE: 2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
Cormanus, nope, after riding Eric's bike on the freeway and faster highways, there is absolutely no way I would ever consider putting a windshield on the CB1100. I have never experienced such ideal wind-management. My ST1100 and ST1300 were nowhere near as quiet and serene around my helmet as Eric's bike, nor have any of my naked bikes been so smooth and turbulence-free. The wind-flow is flawless.

cookiemech, make no mistake, I am very much a Honda partisan. Were the CB1100 not a flagship Honda product, I would still admire it and think it beautiful, but it would not be my first choice among the modern retros. In that instance, the T120 would be my clear favorite. Because the CB1100 is a Honda, however, it holds much greater appeal to me.


(01-15-2018 06:25 AM)The ferret Wrote:  Interesting review and I find it quite surprizing actually. Maybe it's the rpms you were riding at, or the speeds, maybe it's the roads, maybe it's just my personal bike, but my review of the CB1100 would be very different.

I'm sure it's all of those things, but it starts off with where and how we rode vs where and how you ride. Otherwise, yes, in some regards I was just as surprised as you are.

Quote:I don't find the steering heavy at all, even at parking lot speeds. As a matter of fact I find it suprisingly light.

Compared to my bike, simply turning the wheel back and forth while idling shows how much heavier the front end is on the CB; how resistant it is to turning. Once moving, the front end on my bike almost feels like a bicycle compared to the CB's front end, the turn-in is that much lighter.

I was shocked. I've never experienced anything like that with a Honda, except on the cruisers. I was fully expecting the usual Honda trick of heavy bike/light, easy, neutral handling.

One possible explanation that occured to me is that Eric has over 6,000 miles on his tires, and, IIRC, the vast majority of those miles are commuter miles. He has likely spent most of his time on his bike on the very center of the tire, and it's probably a bit squared off by now, which would lead to heavier steering.

Because his bike was so heavy steering, and the CB1100 is almost universally described as having very light steering, this would be my best guess as to why his bike in its current state might be an anomaly.

Quote:I have no problem holding a line thru a curve, changing a line thru a curve, and can ride thru curves using only my throttle hand while shooting pictures with the other. I can pull a rolling U turn on my country lane and a half road.

I could do all those same things too on Eric's bike, albeit with much greater effort than is required to do those things on the XSR.

I found it particularly surprising because all but one review of the CB1100 I've ever read described its light, easy steering, once up to speed. They all say it's heavy and ponderous at parking lot speeds, which is to be expected of such a long, heavy, and relatively top-heavy bike, but Hondas almost always have dead-neutral handling and light steering, once rolling.

This one ride review from an absolute newbie rider is the only one I've found that described what I experienced yesterday on Eric's bike, in terms of the front end's initial resistance to turn. He mentions this, and adds that once the lean angle is set, it's fine. It's reluctant to snap back in the other direction, but that's to be expected of a long, top-heavy bike with conservative steering geometry...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVMaMXianHM

Quote:I find the bike has one of the best transmissions I have ever experienced..snick, snick, snick gear changes up or down, the only exception being the first to second or second to first shift.

It works just fine, but it's nowhere near as fast and seamless as the trannies on most modern Japanese sportbikes. Compared to the XSR's tranny, the CB's shifts were much more deliberate, accompanied by a much more pronounced 'clunk' between shifts.

The only time it ever posed an issue for me was when I wanted to slap a fast downshift on the brakes, heading into a corner. Eric was far more critical than I was of his tranny. Whereas he described it as a Russian tractor, I would compare it the Moto Guzzi V7. It's smoother than the Guzzi tranny, but similar.

It's nothing like a GSX-R or CBR tranny. It's intentionally old school.

Quote:drive line lash is not an issue if you are smooth rolling the throttle on and off rather than chopping the throttle on and off.

No doubt. Most of the time, the drive lash was a nonissue. I was able to coax it into clunking, but I had to try to do it. Chop the throttle and get back on it quickly, and it clunks a lot more than the XSR. Ride a bike hard, like a sportbike, and you can't always roll gently in and out of the throttle. That method doesn't work for more aggressive riding.

Quote:I do find it to be a slow revver, more torquey than peaky with no discernable " hit" in the rpms zones I ride in.

Agreed. No obvious hit anywhere.

Quote:On our roads 3500 rpms is plenty to ride acceptibly fast,

Not for me, it isn't. The only time I'm happy on the CB at those RPM is on the highway or freeway. In the canyons, sub-3500 RPM gets you nowhere fast. You're just rolling around, smoothly arcing from corner to corner. That's fine, but it ain't fast.

Quote:illegally fast even

Well, sure, but that's a given. Any twist of the throttle on any halfway decent motorcycle results in illegal speeds, and the CB is no exception.

Nature of the beast.

Quote:but then again I won't run 100 mph on 55 mph roads.

With just a few exceptions, the only times we hit 100 mph were on the freeway. On the backroads, I only jumped his bike up that fast once. I wanted to check the acceleration in each gear, to confirm your "sundial" description. Thankfully, I found nothing of the sort, and neither did Eric.

Quote:I might run 60 or 65. Smooth throttle application and good line choice is more important here to going fast, than hard throttling and a point and shoot riding style.

This bike enforces that riding style. It doesn't enjoy being treated more aggressively, like a sportbike. We already knew this, but what I discovered was that your method simply won't allow the bike to go fast enough to be any fun for me, or for Eric either, I learned. Those are parade float RPM. Zipping it up above 5K results in "normal" motorcycling fun.

Quote:I also feel no buzziness and find the motor incredibly smooth.

Above 4K and definitely above 5K it has a bit of high-frequency buzz in the pegs, seat, tank, and bars. It's there, but it's not enough to be a bother.

Quote:After reading just how you tested the CB and my interpretation of the results you came up with, I stand by my assertion that I don't think this is the bike for you. Forcing yourself to slow down by buying a bike with "heavy, slow steering,excessive drive line lash, buzziness at certain rpms, sketchy suspension, and transmission with slow responses" is unlikely to work for you, and will probably lead to frustration and a poor return on your investment.

You need to read all of what I described, instead of focusing solely on the negatives. The positives far outweigh the negatives, and the positives are all of particular importance to me. The negatives are things that I can mostly rationalize away as being part and parcel of the Greater Good I'm shooting for here.

The only lasting negatives were the sketchy suspension and slow steering. I'm hopeful that the '17 EX's suspension upgrade and some fiddling of the settings will (mostly) take care of the former issue, and in time I would simply get used to the latter issue. If I ride the bike long enough, without swapping to another bike, the CB's steering will eventually become normal to me. Also, a set of new, non-squared-off tires might cure the slow-steering issue completely.

If Eric's bike had steered as lightly at speed as I expected it to, which it may very well do with a new set of tires, it would have transformed the entire ride for me. All I really would have been left with as a complaint is the suspension, which is not a difficult fix, and the '17 may already provide the solution.

Quote:Keep the XSR.

I doubt I will. I will likely go to the CB1000R or the Z900, if I'm going to remain on a naked sportbike. The question now is simply do I go with the '17 EX or another naked sportbike?
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018 10:39 AM by VLJ.)
01-15-2018 10:22 AM
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Ulvetanna Away
Road Warrior

USA
Posts: 1,696
Joined: Apr 2016
Post: #16
RE: 2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
Well, the report is in, the excitement is over, and VLJ has learned all he needs to know about the CB1100, and about the forum.

My compliments, by the way, to both the Ferret and Guth for really working hard and keeping an open mind about the forum content and activity recently.

One thing VLJ should keep in mind is while it has seemed to me that a good percentage of the more frequent contributors to the forum eschew all this high-speed, sporty riding, there ARE those who've bought the bike and ride it to it limitations and those are not meager if one knows how to use the brakes and pick a line.

Excellent tires are available for this bike in the form of the Continental Road Attack 2 Classic Race, with grip like you can't believe, really. Most of the tire discussion on this form focuses on how long the tire lasts, with guys getting 10,000 or more miles from a tire. To me, that's wild. I'd get tired of looking at the tire by the time it had that kind of mileage, but of course I'd never get anything like that out of a tire anyway.

I'm an old man, retired, and I will say that the CB1100 is an "old man's bike" in many ways. But by no means does that suggest this bike can't be very fun and exciting to ride.

By now I am sure VLJ has learned not everyone likes to hear things about the CB1100 that appear unseemly, but that's the real world, and we all have opinions.

Someone mentioned a new "business model" for this forum recently.

I don't think it needs a new business model, but I do believe that there are a lot of CB1100 owners (and I know several of then personally, btw) who simply don't participate here because the bike has been pretty much rejected by the preponderance of contributors as anything other than a comfy, classic, touring machine. Many call it a sport heritage and I think that's a good moniker.

I ride every bike I own in a sporting fashion within the bike's (and my own) limits.

To respond to another member's mention of a new business model, I would once again suggest just a simple addition to the current format, with a specific emphasis, and dedicated subforms, towards rider skills and technical knowledge, of a more advanced nature than just how to change the oil.

As a former (and possible future) CB1100 owner I think I have some credibility on this point. If the forum continues to limit its interests and focus to the notion that the CB1100 is only a comfy, friendly, standard touring bike, better at garnering questions about "what year is that" or "how long did it take you to restore it" than it is at delivering a truly exhilarating ride near its limits on curving pavement, I am very certain that a good number of owners will seek their entertainment elsewhere. And that would be a shame.

But it wasn't that long ago that the complaints about skinny posts emerged.

Expanding the forum focus somewhat and being more accommodating to CB1100 owners who like to brake hard and scrape the occasional peg, and perhaps do a reflash and exceed 100 mph (as the Ferret has recently done), couldn't help but increase interest and the post count.

Now, back to munching and lurking.

Oh, I forgot to mention one key thing, to VLJ:

Pay no attention to the Ferret, lol! The CB is a great bike, I think you'd love it.

The steering of course feels heavy at low speeds, but lightens very quickly once you get off the clutch. It turns pretty quickly for a 560-lb motorcycle. I know, I had one and rode it just like you ride. You can trust me on this.

And the brakes, while excellent, can be even better with s/s lines and HH pads.

I'd say get one. If you don't like it, you can always trade it in or sell it in a few years. If you don't, you'll never have had the experience, and the CB1100 is one bike I think you need to feel to really know.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018 10:41 AM by Ulvetanna.)
01-15-2018 10:36 AM
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peterbaron Offline
Lives On Two Wheels

ON, Canada
Posts: 9,142
Joined: Jan 2016
Post: #17
RE: 2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
Everybody has different experience with his own riding = normality.

My first year with present CB = too much body/chest wind resistance (100+ km/h) and always dirty white leather jacket, mostly bugs.
Next year, I installed windshield, and wind noise/turbulence tired my head and neck.
A year after, I replaced previously installed screen with a toller one and since then, I found enough comfort overall for long distance...max 1150 km/1 day & 600-900 km daily within next 7-12 days. No regrets.
Plan more long distance riding with this set up in years to come.... with CB of course!

The ferretThe ferret

pb

"Drop a gear and disappear"®
'14 CB1100 DLX-#170 ® 26K kms (FOX - pleasure horse)
'14 CB1100/ABS ® 113K kms (MYSHOL - white draft horse)
'13 CB1100/c-ABS - 56K kms - sold
*Grand Chancellor*
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018 11:21 AM by peterbaron.)
01-15-2018 10:59 AM
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Guth Offline
Forum Founder

Portland, OR
Posts: 3,918
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #18
RE: 2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
Ulvetanna, you strike me as quite an insecure person. Please get over it already.

The Honda CB1100: STILL air-COOLed
Deposit placed 11/12/2012.
Received delivery 04/05/2013.
01-15-2018 11:01 AM
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The ferret Offline
Forum Moderator

Ohio
Posts: 31,277
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #19
RE: 2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
Thanks for the kind words Ulve. I think lol

Yes the CB can be ridden in a sporting manner, but that's where it's negatives manifest themselves. Weight, lack of horsepower, lack of lean angle, and some other things that VLJ noted after his test ride, and when compared to his current ride, according to his report, came up lacking. Honda says it was designed for a relaxing ride. Every test report says it is designed for a relaxing ride.

If to make this bike suit him, he has to do suspension work, and brake lines, and tires, and either higher seat or lower pegs or both, that will still not fix the weight, slow steering, and transmission he felt.

Problem is VLJ is looking for a "last bike" so that means the CB has to do everything for him that he wants it to do, well, and not just some things well.

Look we agree, this is a great bike. Lord knows, I'm a big big fan. Bought 2 of them, have put 45,000 miles on them. I have had none of the issues that he complained about, but then again I don't ride it like he did, which tells me, that this bike doesn't like to be ridden at those paces. Can it? Yes. Will it be as good as some other bikes in that regard? Heavens no.

Lets go back and revisit what he liked about the CB... He could flat foot it, it had immaculate fit and finish, it was good looking, it had good brakes. Is that good enough to keep his interest peaked forever? He says he wants to slow down, gets an opportunity to test ride a bike by most accounts made for riding at slower paces, then proceeds to ride it like a sport bike and finds it has faults when ridden like that. He already has a bike that makes him supremely happy, one that out preforms the CB in every measure..lighter, faster, handles better,shifts better, more exotic sounding. What am I missing?

Look I have virtually known VLJ for maybe 5 years now. He is a great guy, knowledgeable about many things moto related. I thoroughly enjoy conversations with him even though we don't always agree. I don't BS him, and he doesn't BS me. We tell each other as we see it. I respect him. I would only want the best thing for him. Knowing him as I do, reading his thoughts on the CB1100 for the last 5 years, and knowing how he likes to ride, I just don't see the CB making him happy. 50% of the time maybe, those Sundays in the canyons...no way. But...it's his choice. He has always been honest with me, I just hope he is honest with himself.

.
Defender of the Realm
2014 DLX (the pleasure horse)
2021 NC750X DCT (Angry Bird)
01-15-2018 11:18 AM
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VLJ Offline
High Mileage

California
Posts: 905
Joined: Sep 2017
Post: #20
RE: 2014 CB1100 Standard ride review/XSR900 comparo
Nortoon Wrote:Lie it or not this is an old man's bike. You have ot be at least 60 to remember the CB750 and appreciate it looks.

Eric is only forty, and I'm fifty-three. While I can't speak in full for Eric, I do know that he loves the look of his bike. That was its main selling feature to him. For my part, I think the CB1100 is the most beautiful regular-production motorcycle available today. I have never ridden an original CB750 from the '60s, but I sure do appreciate and admire its looks, just as I love the looks of this new one.

kvdv Wrote:"Turning the bars in the parking lot, wow, there's lot of resistance."
My first thought was "hmmm....front tire pressure was low (maybe rear too)." Even a pound or two low up front and my DLX feels heavy too. At the recommended 36 psi on the other hand, it's light and responsive just like you'd want and expect.

Very possible. I didn't check the tire pressures. If the tire was under-inflated and squared off, well, there you go.

EmptySea Wrote:At this point you, still demonstrating no grasp of Mickey's original post about upper gear acceleration, lost credibility in my eyes

Which tells me that you merely skimmed over what I wrote. I specifically conducted mickey's test of low RPM in sixth gear to full throttle and 100 mph. 60-100 and 70-100, starting from the standard cruising RPM in sixth gear, exactly as he described in his "sundial" post.

If you're going to demean my credibility, at least have your facts straight.

Quote:I find it oddly insulting (odd because I shouldn't really care enough to feel insulted) that you view this bike as one that will "force you to slow down". First off, it won't.

Yes, it will. Perhaps it won't slow you down, but compared to how I ride on my Street Triple R and XSR, yes, a 560-lb bike with a long wheelbase, soft suspension, and limited ground clearance will absolutely force me to slow down on my favorite sporty roads. You can view this as insulting, but that's on you, not me. I'm simply stating a fact. Basic physics are basic physics.

Quote:you just finished saying that the bike is "plenty fast" so maybe you mean that it doesn't get through turns fast enough...that's a user problem, not the bike's problem. I don't ride very well at all, but I can point to several people on this forum who do and while they would all tell you that it's not a sport bike, they would also tell you that they can get it through the twistiest set of turns quickly and effortlessly (except for some front end dipping on decel).

Apples and oranges. You can't begin to compare the sporting potential (including the cornering potential, which is obviously what we're talking about here) of a CB1100 to the bikes I normally ride, so don't bother trying to convince me that a CB can be safely ridden as quickly as a real sportbike. I know it can't, and I don't mind that it can't.

That's the whole idea here.

Ulvetanna Wrote:Oh, I forgot to mention one key thing, to VLJ:

Pay no attention to the Ferret, lol! The CB is a great bike, I think you'd love it.

The steering of course feels heavy at low speeds, but lightens very quickly once you get off the clutch. It turns pretty quickly for a 560-lb motorcycle. I know, I had one and rode it just like you ride. You can trust me on this.

My suspicion is that a new set of non-squared-off, properly inflated tires will restore the steering quickness I expect from the CB. I'm not worried about it.

Quote:And the brakes, while excellent, can be even better with s/s lines and HH pads.

No doubt, and I add those two items to all my bikes, but I suspect that the CB1100's front end would respond rather like my old SV650's in that an increase in stopping power would only exacerbate the soft suspension's tendency to collapse under hard braking. If I were to add lines and HH pads, I'd probably also want stiffer, more capable suspension, which is what I ended up doing with the SV650.

My initial feeling upon riding Eric's bike is I would leave the brakes alone. For the bike's intended purpose, they're not merely more than adequate, they're exceptionally good.

Quote:I'd say get one. If you don't like it, you can always trade it in or sell it in a few years. If you don't, you'll never have had the experience, and the CB1100 is one bike I think you need to feel to really know.

This is exactly how I feel. I've gone through so many bikes over the years, and I'm glad to have experienced every one of them. They all add to my perspective, but some itches simply have to be scratched.
01-15-2018 11:27 AM
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