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Driver/Rider Distractions
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Cormanus Offline
Moderator

Queensland, Australia
Posts: 20,659
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #1
Driver/Rider Distractions
A recent report on a current affairs show which focused on the impact of distractions on drivers made me wonder about the question of when doing something other than riding or driving is OK. The show looked at mobile phone use, but it raised questions about the dangers of sat nav systems in cars being programmed or adjusted by drivers.

And then there was this exchange:

(01-29-2018 09:09 AM)alprider Wrote:  btw.

i hold absolut nothing from take pictures and drive at the same time........its the same as when you are in the car with the phone on the ear

(01-29-2018 09:12 AM)EmptySea Wrote:  btw. Not it is not the same, but if you'd like to discuss the differences, let's do so in another thread or in PM.

For those opinionated members frustrated by an inability to ride and in need of something to do, consider the following:

Any activity at all that distracts you from the task of riding or driving poses a hazard that should be avoided.

Discuss with examples of behaviours that you consider dangerous, safe or marginal.
02-10-2018 03:54 PM
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The ferret Offline
Forum Moderator

Ohio
Posts: 31,277
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #2
RE: Driver/Rider Distractions
You know I don't know that there are anything much distracting that I see motorcyclists do that I consider dangerous. I would think programming a GPS on the fly might qualify as distracting and dangerous, but I don't know that I've ever seen anyone doing that. Did see a motorcyclist on a cell phone one time and thought that was stupid/dangerous.

I think, excessive speeding or using the street as a race track, weaving in and out of traffic, tailgating, changing lanes without signaling all dangerous things for a motorcyclist to do.

I don't consider using my point and shoot lanyard camera any more dangerous than lifting my helmet visor for air or lowering it, checking my mirrors or checking the speedometer, or the gas gauge. No more dangerous than looking at a traffic sign on the side of the road, or at a motorcyclist going the opposite direction to see what kind of bike he is on, or looking at some feature or scenery on the side of the road. If you can't take your eyes of the road for a second there is no sense riding your motorcycle anyplace beautiful or interesting. You have to know when you can look away and what situations require your full attention.

I think as a group motorcyclists are pretty good at situational awarness and avoiding unnecessary distractions.

.
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02-10-2018 06:20 PM
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Ulvetanna Away
Road Warrior

USA
Posts: 1,696
Joined: Apr 2016
Post: #3
RE: Driver/Rider Distractions
Using any kind of hand-held device whilst driving, riding, or cycling is illegal in California. So no, you cannot take a picture of your speedometer or the scenery or whatever without breaking the law.

Officers are MUCH more serious about enforcing the hands-free law than about enforcing strict speed limits. There are many special enforcement actions specifically targeting cell-phone or other hand-held items being used by motorists or cyclists. The police absolutely hate that stuff because those things cause the worst of the accidents.

If you're flowing with traffic and watching the road carefully, probably never get to know your local law enforcement around here. Blabber on a cell-phone or hold it up to take a picture, you will get no free pass.

You can talk your way out of a speeding ticket (have done many times) but probably never out of a hands-free violation.

Note that none of this is my opinion, I am just relaying to all the California laws and situation. I do happen to agree with it.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 06:47 PM by Ulvetanna.)
02-10-2018 06:45 PM
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The ferret Offline
Forum Moderator

Ohio
Posts: 31,277
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #4
RE: Driver/Rider Distractions
So a bicycle rider can't grab his water bottle for a sip without breaking the law in California? But pot is legal? Wow.

In Ohio, speeding is a much larger deal, and you'd better not get caught doing more than about 9 or 10 over and chances are you are NOT going to be able to talk your way out of it. IN this state the saying is " Speed Kills" and the Highway Patrol motto is " Over 9, you're mine". Texting is illegal, but I have never heard of anyone getting pulled over for it and see it all day every day while riding. Almost every LEO I see is driving and talking on a cell phone.

Btw full admission, I took a lot of pics while riding in California, but didn't know it was illegal.

.
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(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 07:05 PM by The ferret.)
02-10-2018 06:55 PM
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Flynrider Offline
Been There

Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,233
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #5
RE: Driver/Rider Distractions
This can be a complex issue. Studies show people having phone conversations, even hands free, result in longer reaction times. Of course, you can say the same about someone having an animated conversation with a passenger as well.

I think the most pressing issue these days are distractions in which the driver/rider is taking his/her eyes off the road to focus on something else. This is the equivalent of driving down the road with your eyes closed. The most obvious distracted drivers I see on the road have their heads down, focused on something other than what is in front of their vehicle. I feel these are by far the most dangerous people on the road.

I often do things that do not require me to take my eyes off the road while driving. Changing a radio station, having a sip of coffee, etc... What I find that I can't do well is anything that requires much attention. I once tried to have a mobile (hands free) phone conversation with my boss about a technical issue at work, but found myself unable to divert enough attention from the road to intelligently answer any of his questions. I ultimately had to pull over.

BTW, I also occasionally use a lanyard cam. Only in light to no traffic, as having one hand off the bars essentially rules out hard braking. I also do it all by feel. I never look at the camera. Just point it it the right general direction and snap off several shots in the hope that one might turn out.

There are many levels of distraction, but I think anything that requires someone to take their eyes off the road is by far the worst (and should be legislated as such).

Phoenix, AZ
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02-10-2018 07:35 PM
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EmptySea Offline
Lives On Two Wheels

Chicagoland, USA
Posts: 7,004
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #6
RE: Driver/Rider Distractions
We are distracted ALL the time when in any vehicle: We don't notice the bus turning left across our path two blocks ahead because our attention is drawn to the car to our right creeping out from an intersection 100' ahead. We read street signs, looking for Smith St. which is around here someplace. We see the flashing "low fuel" indicator and we start doing noroomtomove's calculation in our head. These are all distractions in the sense that they pull our focus, if only for a fraction of a second, away from the task at hand. In the split-second that it took to notice the car, or the bus, or the street sign, another vehicle, or pedestrian, or animal could cross our path.

I think there are degrees of distraction, largely based on the length of time of the distraction, but also involving the surrounding environment and the individual person's ability to manage the information that is being fired at him. So, staring at your GPS receiver for seconds is probably a major distraction, but if you're on Middle Of Nowhere lane and there are not other vehicles approaching you, maybe it's really a minor distraction. Watching a bald eagle fly along, pacing you 500' to your right over a farm field is probably something you should avoid doing if there's a curve in the road ahead or a tractor coming toward you in the opposite lane with three cars following waiting to pass.

Pointing a camera in the general direction of your subject and hoping to get at least one good shot. is a distraction. There's no denying it, but is is not the same level of distraction as talking or texting while driving a car. However, it may very well by a major distraction to someone else. It's probably a major distraction when done in heavy, but fast moving, traffic. It's a more than a distraction if it happens to be important to have both hands on the bars sometime in the few seconds after using the camera. It also may be illegal, although that is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion here.

One more thing. The result of distraction is shortening the reaction time of the distracted--shortening the time and distance between the rider and the object of concern. Speeding does this, too.

My suggestion to those that feel that any use of a camera while riding is too risky is that they refrain from doing so and unless they always ride at or below the posted speed limit, the can refrain from criticizing my decision to take photographs from my moving motorcycle.

MTC

"If you can’t go home again, at least you can enjoy the ride” — Peter Egan


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02-10-2018 08:23 PM
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Ulvetanna Away
Road Warrior

USA
Posts: 1,696
Joined: Apr 2016
Post: #7
RE: Driver/Rider Distractions
(02-10-2018 06:55 PM)The ferret Wrote:  So a bicycle rider can't grab his water bottle for a sip without breaking the law in California? But pot is legal? Wow.

In Ohio, speeding is a much larger deal, and you'd better not get caught doing more than about 9 or 10 over and chances are you are NOT going to be able to talk your way out of it. IN this state the saying is " Speed Kills" and the Highway Patrol motto is " Over 9, you're mine". Texting is illegal, but I have never heard of anyone getting pulled over for it and see it all day every day while riding. Almost every LEO I see is driving and talking on a cell phone.

Btw full admission, I took a lot of pics while riding in California, but didn't know it was illegal.
A cyclist can take a drink or eat same as it's legal to eat or drink whilst driving a car. The operator does not have to view a screen or input data. It is hand-held devices such as cameras and cellular phones which are proscribed by law.

(02-10-2018 08:23 PM)EmptySea Wrote:  My suggestion to those that feel that any use of a camera while riding is too risky is that they refrain from doing so and unless they always ride at or below the posted speed limit, the[y] can refrain from criticizing my decision to take photographs from my moving motorcycle.
LOL, Cormanus has incriminated himself in that case:

(02-10-2018 03:58 PM)Cormanus Wrote:  Can't answer the question, pdedse, but I was thinking exactly the same thing just the other day. I'm so glad my speedo shows only km/h.

İmage

115 kph and snapping images!The ferret

Then again he did state he started this thread to created some kind of diversion to the winter doldrums.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 08:48 PM by Ulvetanna.)
02-10-2018 08:45 PM
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Guth Offline
Forum Founder

Portland, OR
Posts: 3,918
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #8
RE: Driver/Rider Distractions
(02-10-2018 08:23 PM)EmptySea Wrote:  We are distracted ALL the time when in any vehicle

This.

Much of driving/riding free of accidents has to do with managing the distractions. It's impossible to remain alert and take in all of the activity surrounding us without countless distractions continuously vying for our attention. Those folks who are able to separate the signal from the noise are the ones that return home safe and sound, and do so without impacting others in a negative way.

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02-10-2018 11:59 PM
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offroadfx4 Offline
High Mileage

Indiana
Posts: 1,113
Joined: Apr 2014
Post: #9
RE: Driver/Rider Distractions
I know it's not a highway, but as a private pilot when I had my Cessna 172 Skyhawk, I had to be constantly be talking on the radio, turning and adjusting knobs, levers, reading dials, gauges, artificial horizon AND scanning the sky for conflicting traffic and obstacles, etc

So I pretty much thrive on doing the same when riding and driving. I will run GPS even when I know where I'm going just so I can watch the numbers click off.

I AM extra careful when riding as 1) I assume they don't see me 2) many obstacles that wouldn't matter in an car are a big deal on a bike. 3) any conflicts and I'm the one going to get the worst end, even if it's not my fault 4) I don't have a seat belt or an airbag

Someone once told me, that the popularity of motorcycle skyrocketed when military pilots came back from war and a motorcycle was the closest thing they could afford to get some of the same feelings as flying.

Maybe I'm a little over confident in myself, only time will tell.

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02-11-2018 02:22 AM
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EmptySea Offline
Lives On Two Wheels

Chicagoland, USA
Posts: 7,004
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #10
RE: Driver/Rider Distractions
@ulvetanna - Cormanus presented his topic of discussion as a resolution to be debated, not necessarily as his opinion. Reading between the lines of his resolution I think he and I would be on the same side of the debate. To wit, asking us for examples of behaviors which are "dangerous, safe, or marginal" implies, I think, that he believes there are different levels of distraction. I regret including the lines you quoted in my original comments as they are irrelevant to the topic being discussed.

MTC

"If you can’t go home again, at least you can enjoy the ride” — Peter Egan


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02-11-2018 06:15 AM
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