Poll: Brake preference?
Non-ABS brakes
Linked ABS brakes
Unlinked ABS brakes
No brakes/parachute/other
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ABS: Good, or Bad?
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Flynrider Offline
Been There

Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,233
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #21
RE: ABS: Good, or Bad?
I voted for non-ABS. I'm pretty confident in my ability to apply maximum braking force without locking them up. Daily driving in Phoenix traffic allows me to practice this regularly Angry About 99.5% of my riding is done on dry pavement.

I wouldn't be opposed to buying a bike with ABS, I just don't care for the added complexity and cost, so if I have the option I opt out.

I see a great benefit for relatively new riders who haven't mastered maximum braking techniques. Sadly, most of the motorcycle crashes I've seen in the last few years have involved a long, black skid mark on the pavement with a broken bike at the end. In my early riding days I had a few of these myself.

Phoenix, AZ
2013 CB1100 - Big Red
1993 CB750 Nighthawk - Tahitian Blue
06-02-2014 06:25 PM
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furious_blue Offline
Running Like a Top


Posts: 569
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #22
RE: ABS: Good, or Bad?
I'll take the ABS. It will know about that greasy spot that I happened to miss seeing when I need to stop in an awful hurry. I'd take the linked option too if only they had it for the '14s.

My Blackbird has linked brakes, but no ABS.
In 75000+ miles on it I only had to make a really 'sudden' stop once. I usually only use the front brake lever, but in this instance I knew that I needed to use front and back and as much as I could while trying my best not to lock either of the wheels. That's when I felt the 'linked brake magic' as the bike kind of 'squatted down' rather than having the back start getting really light. I'm sure that I stopped quicker because of the linked brake system. I only really made use of the linked brake feature once in all the time on that bike but that one time probably saved my hide.
06-02-2014 06:46 PM
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Ridem32 Offline
Road Warrior

Mississippi
Posts: 1,573
Joined: Apr 2014
Post: #23
ABS: Good, or Bad?
Good save FB your riding experience helped you a lot. Those close calls happens and you kept your cool and made it
06-02-2014 07:03 PM
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Red Mist Offline
Running Like a Top

USA
Posts: 390
Joined: Feb 2014
Post: #24
RE: ABS: Good, or Bad?
(06-02-2014 07:03 PM)Ridem32 Wrote:  Good save FB your riding experience helped you a lot. Those close calls happens and you kept your cool and made it
Since Ridem32 has shown up it has certainly taken the load off of me. Every single thing he has said is correct here. We have very similar backgrounds, extensive dirt riding, dual-sport, motocross/desert, also I don't know all his experience but I have roadraced and taught with a track school, and continue to do track days on my GSX-R.

One thing that should be thought about here is that your bike should decelerate just as fast as it can accelerate. Most bikes can pull more Gs with the brakes than they can with the throttle, but only if the rider knows how. Anyone can twist a throttle, but few riders are actually accomplished on the brakes. I enjoy braking as much as any other part of riding, even more, really. I love hauling the bike down at corner entry and smoothly rolling it onto the perfect line whilst easing off the brakes and picking up the throttle. I love just braking HARD on clean straight pavement until a bit of daylight shows under the rear tire, so hard that it takes the same force as my body weight to brace myself against the bars.

At track days, there are a lot of guys and gals who like to take the superwide lookieloo line, which, BTW, is the slow line around the track. The shortest distance around the track is almost always the fastest, and squaring off the turn, Kenny Roberts-style, is the way to do it. But that requires great brake and throttle control in order to stuff it up the inside, "in slow, out fast". The wide, sweeping line uses little brakes or acceleration and anyone using this line to race is going to get smoked right up the inside all day long, but it's favored by newer riders because some schools teach it and talk it up. Riders like it because it doesn't require much braking or acceleration, something that can't be done when you are all the way over on the side of the tire. I like to take the tight line, square it off, stuff it in underneath, and then blast out earlier than the other guy, because I'm more upright and can get on the throttle sooner. It's a dirt-riding technique. Kenny Roberts talks about it extensively in his book, and Freddie Spencer remarked earlier this year about Marc Marquez re-introducing this technique that he and Kenny used in the 1980s; Roberts also mentioned this in another interview recently in MCN.

MotoGP bikes don't use ABS and the point is that all ABS systems do is compensate for a lack of skill or a mistake on the part of the rider. ABS cannot possibly stop the bike faster than a skilled rider on dry, clean pavement. As Ridem32 has correctly said, many tests are available that prove this. A very sophisticated control system can certainly help under wet or difficult conditions, but control systems vary greatly from one vehicle to the next. Some do nothing more than release the brake at or just before the point of lockup. Others are supplied with data from multiple accelerometers and lean angle sensors connected to a high-performance ECU.

The bottom line here is that until someone has mastered this very important skill, the discussion isn't meaningful. Most riders these days will never throw a leg over a dirtbike, they want to start out with something big and powerful. In such a case, I would want all the ABS, traction control, and ECU management in there that is available.

But it's not for me, and to demonstrate why, just a couple of months ago, Cycle World picked the GSX-R 750 as the best middleweight superbike available, as compared to the Ducati 899 twin and MV Agusta triple, both of which made more peak horsepower on the dyno. But the Suzuki had the fastest lap times (at the Streets of Willow) and also the fastest straightaway speeds. But, unlike the two Italian bikes, it did NOT have any electronic intervention, such as traction control; it's all analog and all up to the rider. It was rider skill that got the most out of the bike and that will always be the case.

The more we work at building skill the better off we are, but brake and engine intervention are here to stay. Newer riders should take advantage of all these things.

[i]Does anybody remember laughter?[/i]
-Led Zeppelin's Robert Plant ROFL
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 08:16 PM by Red Mist.)
06-02-2014 08:13 PM
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Ridem32 Offline
Road Warrior

Mississippi
Posts: 1,573
Joined: Apr 2014
Post: #25
ABS: Good, or Bad?
Do I have to agree with wild man Red Mist!! Lol. It's all true and nothing to be ashamed of. ABS is good for people that don't have the years and miles of riding a bike. My daughter 26 my son 24 I would want them on a bike with ABS. But Red Mist is RIGHT no way can ABS out preform a good rider ! I bought my wife back in the 80 ,s a Nissan 200sx brand new with ABS. She rear ended a car at a stop sign. She told me she hit the brakes the petal got hard and just crawled to a stop. She was rite I worked for Nissan as a master Nissan Tec and master ASE All of us ole school mechanics learned quick about ABS. Your never in complete control of your brakes. With a bike like Red Mist said about hitting front brake untill daylight shows under rear tire no way could ABS stop that fast ! Smile
06-02-2014 08:38 PM
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lagoje Offline
1st Service Completed

Arizona
Posts: 80
Joined: Oct 2013
Post: #26
ABS: Good, or Bad?
ABS for me. I bought the 2013 ABS as I suspected they would be difficult in 2014. I've gone to several of the TeamAZ skills practice sessions and the first one was braking. I enjoyed practicing how hard I could pull the brake lever before the ABS kicked in, but it made me realize that it's hard to get it perfect each time. If you do get it just right, you can stop very quickly without the ABS ever kicking in. Practice practice practice. In an emergency I feel better knowing it's there, but don't rely on it. If it ends up saving me once then it will have been worth far more than the cost.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

-Lago

13 CB1100AD (For Sale)
12 Yamaha Zuma 125
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
78 CB400 Hawk [i](my first, but no longer with me)[/i]
06-02-2014 08:43 PM
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EmptySea Offline
Lives On Two Wheels

Chicagoland, USA
Posts: 7,004
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #27
RE: ABS: Good, or Bad?
Actually, every comparison test I have ever read state that ABS is at least as good as nonABS on streetbikes on dry pavement and are FAR superior on wet pavement. If you only ride your CB1100 on dry pavement at the track and if you are a VERY good rider who never makes a mistake, pass on ABS. If you ever ride in the wet or ever make a mistake, ABS is better.

Stopping distance was pretty far down the list of things I looked at before buying my bike. Therefore, ABS was not a big priority for me, but it was a big additional expense, so I passed on it. I'm banking on never being in a position where this proves to be a bad decision, but I've never kidded myself into believing that I chose the better braking system because I didn't.

MTC

"If you can’t go home again, at least you can enjoy the ride” — Peter Egan


2013 CB1100 non-abs
2013 CB1100 abs
06-02-2014 09:22 PM
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rjk555 Offline
1st Service Completed

Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 69
Joined: May 2013
Post: #28
RE: ABS: Good, or Bad?
I agree with Guth (Post 12), Furious Blue (Post 22) and EmptySea (Post 27).

To answer the OP's question - ABS Good or Bad?

I believe everyone on this forum agrees that ABS is good. Some members believe they can outperform ABS under certain conditions. But even those members generally agree that ABS is a useful safety feature for many riders.

My next comment is aimed at readers who may be contemplating a CB purchase, and wondering if there is a difference in feel between the linked braking system of an ABS CB and a non-linked system. I own the former, and I can't tell the difference between it and my old non-ABS bike. The ABS-equipped CB is a pleasure to ride. Hope this proves useful.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 10:21 PM by rjk555.)
06-02-2014 10:17 PM
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ingobohn Offline
Running Like a Top

Germany
Posts: 294
Joined: Oct 2013
Post: #29
RE: ABS: Good, or Bad?
ABS is definitively a MUST for me. I only purchased 2 motorcycles so far, but when I strolled around at the motorcycle dealers, I only looked for ABS models. I left non-ABS models strictly aside. For me ABS is a "killer criteria". Additionally, in Germany used bikes of 1-3 years age are nearly unsellable without ABS already (or only with a high price markdown).

I voted for linked ABS as I had it on my Transalp and have it now also on my CB1100 and like it. When I have to decelerate (which means smooth braking not harsh stopping) I meanwhile got used to use only my rear brakes (mainly) because it is simply smooth and comfortable. C-ABS also activates (partly) the front brakes which gives better stability and better brake force.

Last week when I rode along the German Alps for 5 days, I had to use ABS two times (one time my fault, one time not). As the weather was not always perfect the roads in both cases were (partly) wet and a bit slippery. I cannot imagine what would have happened in both cases without ABS ... or I can imagine but I do not want to ...
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 10:46 PM by ingobohn.)
06-02-2014 10:43 PM
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shdwghst457 Offline
Running Like a Top

San Antonio, TX
Posts: 483
Joined: Feb 2014
Post: #30
RE: ABS: Good, or Bad?
(06-02-2014 10:17 PM)rjk555 Wrote:  I believe everyone on this forum agrees that ABS is good. Some members believe they can outperform ABS under certain conditions. But even those members generally agree that ABS is a useful safety feature for many riders.

You're right, I could've phrased the question better than good/bad.

I'm a new rider. My CB just hit 1000 miles the other day, after four months. It's predecessor, a 2012 Shadow, also a non-ABS bike, only had 1500 miles on it when I traded it in, so I know I have pretty much exactly 2500 miles of experience, which is nothing.

Before I took the MSF course in August, I couldn't even get the Shadow in gear. I got the Rebel around the block but the Shadow would just stall the moment I would try. The course really helped here, and in my group of 8 they split us up into two smaller groups; four people who ultimately failed the course, and my group of two lifetime riders, myself, and another new rider the instructor perceived to be an adept learner.

I locked up the Shadow's rear wheel many times at first, and ignored the course's instruction to keep holding it and leave the wheel locked up, opting instead to grab the clutch so the wheel would free spin instead of throwing me off the bike sideways like a good inverted pendulum should, and later asked my instructor-turned-friend about the decision. He said they don't teach that since most (and I think he was just talking about new) riders don't think that quickly in a panic, but that it's a good technique.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I'm personally happier learning how to really ride, just like I don't think a new driver should learn in a Lexus LS460 (the self-parker). I want to know that the skills I develop are mine, and not my bike's. The CB is tremendously more powerful than the Shadow, and similar in weight, but I've yet to lock up the brakes once on the CB. All that said, I do think ABS is inherently a good thing, and it's no doubt saved many lives and lessened the severity of many accidents. I just think people should learn to safely ride without, in case they end up on a bike that lacks it.

'14 - #102052
'13 - #000955 (sold)
06-02-2014 11:33 PM
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