Air Filters
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BIGGREEK
Break-In Period
Houston, DE
Posts: 41
Joined: Dec 2014
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Air Filters
Now, I havent seen this before and Im wondering if its feasible. Can you, without issue, install air filter pods on each of the throttle bodies and get rid of the entire airbox setup?
similar to this
1998 Honda Valkyrie Tourer
2014 Honda CB1100 #0468
"I"d rather ride my Honda than owe on a Harley."
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02-10-2015 08:30 PM |
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OldF7Guy
Running Like a Top
Posts: 746
Joined: Apr 2013
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RE: Air Filters
Im not sure how this would work on a fuel injected engine. That said, pod filters create havoc with carbed bikes. One of my buddies is trying to get an older Honda sohc 750 to run right with these and it is my belief that he never will or not as good as running the stock airbox. The older carbed bikes run lean and rejetting and tinkering never seems to overcome that problem in its entirety. I have seen some have some success only after they tape up the filters to cut off the air flow. Also, cross winds create all sorts of issues as well.
As one person said, the only way to get them to run as good as they do with the stock air box is to run the stock air box.
2003 Honda 750 Nighthawk
2013 Honda CB1100
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02-11-2015 05:31 AM |
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kDiqq
1st Service Completed
Houston
Posts: 205
Joined: Jul 2014
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RE: Air Filters
Very true of carb'd bikes. On any EFI bike, you just need to make sure all your sensors are in order. In the case of the CB1100, you have a mission-critical MAP sensor in the airbox (which is puzzling, because this is always behind the throttle bodies...). Either way if you wanted individual filters, you would have to mate them to a common airbox, insert the MAP, and then attach it to your TBs. Is it possible? Yeah. Is it easy? Not that I can see. I will verify placement of this MAP. If it is in front of the filter, this might be easier than I think. It's hard to tell on parts diagrams.
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02-11-2015 09:39 AM |
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Motogeezer1949
High Mileage
Winter Park Florida
Posts: 1,123
Joined: Jun 2014
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RE: Air Filters
I have 2 Yamaha XS750's with pods. One has stock pipes, the other has a Mac 3 into 1. Both still stock jetted, both run great. Plugs read tan. In the automotive world, conical K&N's are put directly on throttle bodies all the time. Had one on my Corvette. No issues. Put it back to stock when I sold it.
Jim Lucia, aka Motogeezer 1949
2010 BMW R1200RT
2014 Aprilia Tuono V4 APRS ABS
Past: Cafe'd 2014 CB1100DLX.
2016 Yamaha XSR900 60th. Anniversary
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02-11-2015 06:51 PM |
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BIGGREEK
Break-In Period
Houston, DE
Posts: 41
Joined: Dec 2014
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RE: Air Filters
With fuel injection, you dont NEED to re-tune the ECM for simple bolt ons (Intake/exhaust), because it will adapt by itself. Formerly on carbed bikes, you would need to re-jet the carbs every time you farted the wrong way. The airflow "imbalance" shouldn't really be a problem because only one throttle body will be pulling air in at a single time (theoretically).
And please forgive me, I haven't dug into this bike yet as I would with my cars, but why would a MAP sensor be before the throttle plates? It could be a BARO sensor, only reading ambient pressures on KOEO (key on engine off) and/or full throttle, where there isnt any "vacuum" just like a Speed Density system.
1998 Honda Valkyrie Tourer
2014 Honda CB1100 #0468
"I"d rather ride my Honda than owe on a Harley."
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02-11-2015 08:58 PM |
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Lord Popgun
I find your lack of RLETs disturbing
Virginia Beach
Posts: 10,442
Joined: Apr 2013
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RE: Air Filters
If you look in the '13 manual, the vacuum hoses for the MAP sensor are just before (I think before) the injectors. I don't know what that means in the scheme of things. The '14 service manual probably shows it too, but I don't have that manual.
If you come to a fork in the road, take it!
2013 CB1100
2012 ST1300
Holder of the CB1100Forum Secret Decoder Ring
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02-12-2015 05:45 AM |
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pechorin75
1st Service Completed
Maryland
Posts: 203
Joined: Feb 2014
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RE: Air Filters
At the risk of piling on (and sorry for the thread hijack), I feel like I should stick up for a properly done pod setup on a carbureted bike. I've had K&N pods on my Kawasaki ZRX1100 for several years now, and it's run perfectly with them from day one. BUT...that was done as part of a well-known and tested set of mods that included removing the smog stuff, rejetting the carbs (Ivan's Performance Products), and installing a full Akrapovic exhaust.
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02-12-2015 01:36 PM |
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Randy B
Road Warrior
Palm Bay FL
Posts: 2,537
Joined: Apr 2013
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RE: Air Filters
That is a proven setup ion a different type of carb than most Hondas use. The Constant Velocity carb needs a specific vacuum signal to operate properly and when the airbox is removed it drastically unbalances the carbs because different amounts or air reach each individual carb. The airbox balances out the incoming ait charge and allows the CV carb to function as designed. If you have a CV carb on a single cylinder engine, then removing the air box is a mute point, but when you have to have a balanced air charge the airbox become an almost absolute necessity to make sure everything is even and balanced.
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02-12-2015 02:59 PM |
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OldF7Guy
Running Like a Top
Posts: 746
Joined: Apr 2013
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RE: Air Filters
(02-12-2015 02:59 PM)Randy B Wrote: That is a proven setup ion a different type of carb than most Hondas use. The Constant Velocity carb needs a specific vacuum signal to operate properly and when the airbox is removed it drastically unbalances the carbs because different amounts or air reach each individual carb. The airbox balances out the incoming ait charge and allows the CV carb to function as designed. If you have a CV carb on a single cylinder engine, then removing the air box is a mute point, but when you have to have a balanced air charge the airbox become an almost absolute necessity to make sure everything is even and balanced.
Best explanation I have ever heard. Makes sense.
2003 Honda 750 Nighthawk
2013 Honda CB1100
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02-12-2015 08:28 PM |
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grover
Running Like a Top
Dallas, TX
Posts: 313
Joined: Sep 2013
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RE: Air Filters
Thanks for the learning, guys! There are clearly a lot of knowledgeable folks on this forum.
For the OP, depending on your reasoning for pursuing the pod filters, you may want to consider the TSR throttle body funnel kit:
http://www.samurider.com/?p=16781
I've yet to hear of anyone installing one of these, I believe due to having to modify the original air box to accommodate the larger diameter funnels...would be interesting to see!
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02-12-2015 09:31 PM |
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