RE: Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?
(04-16-2015 03:32 PM)twiin640 Wrote: The bike seems to only appeal to those who already owned or liked the CB750 from back in the day. I don't think it's the be all end all bike, but it is a very very well done retro bike.
I personally don't think standards or UJM's will go away, I just think their appeal is in a slump right now. This may be a great time for someone to get some collector's items. I plan to buy at least another 2013 but will wait until the price drops a little more.
RE: Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?
I do not think air-cooled bikes are dead in the US or anywhere else. I read a lot of historical technical journals on engines, including WWII aircraft engines. Water cooled engines are capable of delivering 3% more power than air-cooled engines. I will willingly give up 3% of power for the simplicity of air cooling. Many riders still want air-cooled motors and they will get them. The manufacturers build what sells, even if they sometimes make models that do not sell very well, they keep trying.
RE: Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?
(04-21-2015 02:49 PM)thessler3 Wrote: I do not think air-cooled bikes are dead in the US or anywhere else. I read a lot of historical technical journals on engines, including WWII aircraft engines. Water cooled engines are capable of delivering 3% more power than air-cooled engines. I will willingly give up 3% of power for the simplicity of air cooling. Many riders still want air-cooled motors and they will get them. The manufacturers build what sells, even if they sometimes make models that do not sell very well, they keep trying.
Its not the power differential the manufacturers are concerned with, its the year by year ever toughening worldwide emissions rules that is the driving force moving everyone to water cooling.
--George
[i]"The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day that you find out why" [/i]-- Mark Twain
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2015 04:00 PM by ClassicVW.)
04-21-2015 03:59 PM
ChipBeck
High Mileage
Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 886
Joined: May 2013
RE: Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?
(04-21-2015 02:49 PM)thessler3 Wrote: I do not think air-cooled bikes are dead in the US or anywhere else. I read a lot of historical technical journals on engines, including WWII aircraft engines. Water cooled engines are capable of delivering 3% more power than air-cooled engines. I will willingly give up 3% of power for the simplicity of air cooling. Many riders still want air-cooled motors and they will get them.
Gentlemen,
Perhaps 70 years ago as regards aircraft engines that are operated at fairly constant power levels and can rely upon a steady 250 MPH flow of cooling air that is true. But that formula doesn't apply to motorcycles today. Modern motorcycle engines capable of passing EPA emissions can probably produce 100% more power if they are water cooled. Air cooled engines must be in a mild state of tune to pass emissions today. This is why the CB11 is not a 750. Even at 1130cc it still produces only 87 horsepower. The new Yamaha R-1 has a smaller water cooled engine that puts out 200 horsepower. That's a tad more than 3%. Because the CB11 had air cooling as a design feature and knowing it needed to be a solid performer despite the required mild state of tune, displacement was bumped way up to 1130cc.
As far as air cooled bikes continuing to be produced I agree with you there but I think they will be small displacement, low power bikes like the Honda Grom and other lightweights. Even small displacement dirt bikes are water cooled today.
Harley Davidson will hang on to it in mildly tuned big twins as long as they can but I don't see another 4 cylinder big bore air cooled street bike after our CB's. I hope I'm wrong.
Chip
The road to hell on earth is paved with the good intentions of liberals.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2015 06:06 PM by ChipBeck.)
RE: Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?
The R1 produces more power for many reasons that have little to do with liquid cooling. What they do produces so much waste heat they must liquid cool it so it won't melt.
It's also designed for a different market and mission. Like comparing a taxi to an F1 race car.
But I agree, big inline fours are on the way out with air cooling.
2013 Honda CB1100 Red
2014 Honda CB1100 Black
2008 Honda XR650L
04-21-2015 08:15 PM
JustPassinThru
Running Like a Top
Montana
Posts: 521
Joined: Mar 2015
RE: Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?
(04-20-2015 06:21 PM)JustJohn Wrote: Very telling. Why would you care who gives a darn about what you are riding? Or who eyeballs the bike? Or their age bracket? Who are you trying to "Wow"? Just asking.
Not at all. I'm just an observer of human foibiles.
If I cared what people think, I'd have bought a poser bike.
04-21-2015 08:28 PM
ChipBeck
High Mileage
Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 886
Joined: May 2013
RE: Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?
(04-21-2015 08:15 PM)Rboe Wrote: The R1 produces more power for many reasons that have little to do with liquid cooling. What they do produce is so much waste heat they must liquid cool it so it won't melt.
Rboe,
Exactly. I was not saying that liquid cooling produces twice the power. Liquid cooling produces no power and the water pump actually uses some. What I was saying is that power generation creates heat. Double the power and you more than double heat generation. A taxi cab and a race car are the same in this regard. They both must have sufficient cooling capacity to deal with the heat generated by whatever power level they produce.
The water cooled system in that R-1 is capable of keeping temperatures in check in an engine capable of generating 200 hp. What I'm saying is that the same exact engine that was air-cooled and detuned by 3% would not even come close to being able to keep temps in check. The motor would quickly self destruct. Meeting today's lean burn, catalyst equipped, emissions I think maybe 100 hp would be the limit for an air cooled 1000cc street bike. 120 hp tops but the heads and cylinder cooling fins would have to be massive and heavy.
Water cooling allows much higher power levels than air cooling. And we're not talking 3%, I'd say closer to 100%. Cheers.
Chip
The road to hell on earth is paved with the good intentions of liberals.
RE: Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?
Oil cooling will get you some relief. My Griso is oil/air cooled (about 92hp at the rear wheel) and has some good sized oil journals for the head.
I suspect that materials scientists could come up with a long lasting air cooled high output motor (now could we afford it is another matter!) if the market demanded that. Remember when the EPA first started setting standards back in the 70's and they had pollution pumps and all sorts of ugly stuff attached to engine and performance went into the basement? That lasted what; ten years or so? Then with EFI and computers the plumbing became much simpler, engines became a lot more efficient (and now you have to been a computer expert as well as a wrench to work on the car) and power came back. Along with pony cars. And performance.
Granted they are water cooled but save for the Corsair and VW most were water cooled before.
So in that light; perhaps air cooled is not off the list yet.
2013 Honda CB1100 Red
2014 Honda CB1100 Black
2008 Honda XR650L