Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
Author Message
Ulvetanna Away
Road Warrior

USA
Posts: 1,696
Joined: Apr 2016
Post: #21
RE: Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
(05-06-2016 08:23 AM)Gumby 1100 Wrote:  Ulvetanna,

Do you have evidence to support your view and that the use of the O2 Sensor Eliminator WITHOUT the use of a Power Commander or ECU Reflash might be dangerous?...Because, there are a lot of CB1100 owners running these Eliminator plugs, and ALL have noticed a marked improvement in drivability. Are the typical PCV charts for the CB really adding much fuel in the upper RPM ranges?
The evidence is that good practice when making changes to fueling is to always do a dyno run with air/fuel ratio before and after making changes to ensure the change has not adversely impacted performance or durability.

So the burden of proof lies on the entity promoting the product; without assurances that the elimination of sensor will not harm the engine - in the form of a proper dyno chart - there is no way to really know what's transpiring other than to take the word of the vendor.

Now I will also say it appears absurd that the O2 sensor does nothing but allow the bike to pass an emissions test; the standard line of thinking provides that the sensor will compensate for any type of slip-on or air filter change, obviating the need for a reflash or retune. This has been a widely-held understanding since the days that EFI become the rule for motorcycles, rather than the exception.

If the sensor performs as described in the earlier post, this would be untrue. But countless dyno runs done with many aftermarket slip-ons have shown adjustments made by the ECU to compensate for these mods. At least, this is what we have been given to understand all these years.

If the sensor did nothing above a high idle, no compensation would be possible due to altitude or for a leaner condition due to a high-flow air filter or less restrictive slip-on. So how would a bike owned by a guy in Denver CO (5,000' MSL), or, say Wrightwood CA (7000' MSL) possibly be able to run properly with a correct A/F ratio? Only two ways: either there is a temperature compensated altimeter built into the bike somewhere, or the O2 sensor adjusts for altitude throughout the entire RPM range.

Again, the burden of proof is with the vendor. Accept these things on faith at some risk.

I don't doubt that the bikes "feel" better; that would suggest to me that they are running perhaps lean, because the engine will make more power with an A/F ratio on the lean side. I've rejetted many a motorcycle with carburetors and this is always the case, but it's not good for the engine, especially for an air-cooled bike. So, yeah, it runs better and stronger, but what do the plugs look like? Anyone even ever pull them to see?
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2016 08:40 PM by Ulvetanna.)
05-06-2016 08:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
EmptySea Offline
Been There

Chicagoland, USA
Posts: 4,864
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #22
RE: Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
So, really no evidence then.

Perhaps someone who has installed this could provide us with how many miles they have put on the bike since installation and any negative consequences they have uncovered.

Oh..and one more question which may have been answered, but I can't find it: what if one just unplugged the O2 sensor and did not install anything? Would the bike explode or anything?

MTC


2013 CB1100 non-abs
2013 CB1100 abs
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2016 09:08 PM by EmptySea.)
05-06-2016 08:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
LongRanger Offline
Road Warrior

Evergreen, CO
Posts: 2,006
Joined: Aug 2015
Post: #23
RE: Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
I can't speak to the CB, but after reading glowing testimonials on installing O2 Eliminators on the Moto Guzzi V7 Classic, I decided to buy one (a "Fat Duc"). Easy, two-minute Plug-n-Play job. I noticed no difference in engine responsiveness or performance, but my wallet was lighter.

'14 Honda CB1100 DLX #000094
'15 BMW R1200RT
'13 BMW F800GT
'98 BMW K1200RS
'06 Ducati Monster 620
05-06-2016 09:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
EmptySea Offline
Been There

Chicagoland, USA
Posts: 4,864
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #24
RE: Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
Were you having any issues prior to the installation, LR?

MTC


2013 CB1100 non-abs
2013 CB1100 abs
05-06-2016 09:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Ulvetanna Away
Road Warrior

USA
Posts: 1,696
Joined: Apr 2016
Post: #25
RE: Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
(05-06-2016 08:51 PM)EmptySea Wrote:  So, really no evidence then.

Perhaps someone who has installed this could provide us with how many miles they have put on the bike since installation and any negative consequences they have uncovered.

Oh..and one more question which may have been answered, but I can't find it: what if one just unplugged the O2 sensor and did not install anything? Would the bike explode or anything?
It would throw a fault code and go into a "limp" mode.

Even a spark plug check would give some information as to what this thing actually does. That would be a pain, but that's what we used to do.

What with all the guys using Power Commanders and such, you'd think someone would weigh in about what's going on.

I shoulda said, obviously the bike has no altimeter so the O2 sensor is how it adjusts to altitude.

In the day, above a certain altitude, bikes were rejetted and retuned to run properly. Otherwise they'll run very rich.

Another part of the O2 sensor's job is to maintain the proper emissions performance over time. As the engine wears in, the ECU can make slight changes to compensate. Without it you have a fixed map.
05-06-2016 10:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Guth Offline
Forum Founder

Portland, OR
Posts: 3,360
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #26
RE: Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
Honda's PGM-FI system does not rely on the exhaust side O2 sensor for altitude adjustment. Instead, it does indeed include a altimeter in the form of an atmospheric pressure sensor. The O2 sensor is basically there to lean out the air/fuel ratio as much as possible under certain circumstances in conjunction with the catalytic converter for reduced emissions purposes.

Most fueling adjustments are made on the intake side of things, based on calculations involving other various sensor inputs including intake-port pressure, engine coolant temperature, intake-air temperature and the previously mentioned atmospheric (barometric) pressure.

2013 CB1100: Placed deposit on Nov. 12, 2012; Received delivery on April 5, 2013.
05-07-2016 03:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gumby 1100 Offline
Running Like a Top

Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 460
Joined: May 2014
Post: #27
RE: Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
(05-07-2016 03:44 AM)Guth Wrote:  Honda's PGM-FI system does not rely on the exhaust side O2 sensor for altitude adjustment. Instead, it does indeed include a altimeter in the form of an atmospheric pressure sensor. The O2 sensor is basically there to lean out the air/fuel ratio as much as possible under certain circumstances in conjunction with the catalytic converter for reduced emissions purposes.

Most fueling adjustments are made on the intake side of things, based on calculations involving other various sensor inputs including intake-port pressure, engine coolant temperature, intake-air temperature and the previously mentioned atmospheric (barometric) pressure.

Exactly!...that is why the CB only has a "Narrow Band 02 Lambda Sensor". Narrow Band Sensors only have enough range and precision to function in an emissions testing capacity.

Only a "Wide Band Sensor" like those used in Power Commander's Auto Tune Systems could possibly do all of the things Ulvetanna is assuming.

2014 CB1100A (Canadian) #068 (Sold)
2018 Harley-Davidson Road King
05-07-2016 04:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nemo Offline
High Mileage

Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 784
Joined: Oct 2015
Post: #28
RE: Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
Guth,

How many miles ago did you install the eliminator on your CB? Any perceptible effect?

Thanks,

N
"It is easier for me to be forgiving of the stupid than of the evil." EmptySea

BLACK BIKES MATTER
05-07-2016 05:35 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
redbirds Offline
Been There

Patterson, GA, USA
Posts: 3,859
Joined: Jan 2014
Post: #29
RE: Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
I installed the sensor eliminator about a year ago. Noticed better throttle response at low engine speed. No ill effects.

Philippians 4:8 (NIV)
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
05-07-2016 06:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
EmptySea Offline
Been There

Chicagoland, USA
Posts: 4,864
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #30
RE: Installing an 02 sensor eliminator
Oh. To both Guth and Redbirds (and anyone else replying): Are you running the stock ECU?

MTC


2013 CB1100 non-abs
2013 CB1100 abs
05-07-2016 08:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


[-]
Forum Friends
Premium Exhausts & Unique Parts from Japan

[-]
Recent Posts
What did you do on, or to, your CB today?
How long have you had those engine guard . . .clearviewx — 07:13 PM
CB1100 good for Touring?!
Got a picture with the fairing and the r . . .Big-X — 07:12 PM
Happy Days are here again!!
I ordered the Ikons for the rear today, . . .W/R — 07:12 PM
What did you do on, or to, your CB today?
Took the old CB for a 250 mile ride to t . . .Flynrider — 07:11 PM
SW-Motech Pannier Racks
These are not great photos, but here are . . .Redbird — 07:04 PM
Todays weather
Had a bit of a chilly ride today on the . . .Flynrider — 07:02 PM
Bar end mirrors, advantageous?
Im happy with it and wouldn't change . . .greekcb — 07:02 PM
Bar end mirrors, advantageous?
Im happy with it and wouldn't change . . .misterprofessionality — 06:58 PM

[-]
Statistics
» Members: 4,077
» Latest member: youin3d
» Forum threads: 10,534
» Forum posts: 192,836

Full Statistics

>
Forum Jump: