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CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
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Riko Offline
High Mileage

Belgium
Posts: 1,024
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #601
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
(12-12-2017 06:09 PM)pdedse Wrote:  Got a call from Honda Customer Service today! To refresh: back in late October or early November--I can't remember which--I took my bike to the dealer with letter in hand explaining the problem, but couldn't get the bike to "act up", so I decided against leaving bike with them. A few days later, talked to the SM who said without any check engine light and unable to duplicate the high/low idle issue, that it likely would be difficult for them to diagnose. He suggested I write my letter to Honda CS which I did and left a phone message about two weeks ago.

Back to my call: they wanted to know if I had the dealer look at the problem. I said "no" for the reasons stated above. We talked a good 20 minutes about the problem, the forum responses here, I mentioned a few specific cases. She said for anything to happen, the bike will need to be looked at by a dealer. No promises can be made, but she offered the hope that Honda will respond at times even when bikes are out of warranty. But, I need to the bike to break bad. Last 4 rides of 1-2 hrs riding, no real problem with idle, except just a dip below to 800-900 for a minute. Turn off engine, restart and all good. Nothing like before. But temps are down to 35-50 degrees, so that may play a part.

I asked about Service Bulletins and Recalls, of course nothing, but that she said they need to hear from owners with the problem. The answer is going to be contact dealer, but at least it will be better documented. In time, maybe that produces a response from Honda.

I told her that based on what my dealer said--that they need to replicate the problem--maybe when it warms up--I'll give them one go at it to see if they can determine anything. Anyway...at least they called as a result of me sending in my letter.

I encourage anyone experiencing the problem to do so.

as I said 2 pages back in this highly chaotic thread:

(12-05-2017 01:20 PM)Riko Wrote:  Many views, some comments about bad fuel, nonsense in my country, only one solution, a whole trottle body replacement, under the second hand warranty, wich is one year in Belgium.




So I'm lucky that the issue exposed itself during that period.
Since the replacement back in June '16, the idle has been rock solid in all seasons and all conditions.

My dealer told me the procedure is that they inform Honda of a issue that could potentially lead to a recall after an investigation of the 'faulty' parts.
Thats why the dealer has to hold the parts for a certain period in wich Honda can investigate.

All this time I haven't heard anything from my dealer...either they didn't pick it up or if they did, they did't deem it worthy for a general or regional recall.

They replaced my throttle body on advice from a Honda dealer in The Netherlands wich applied the same method to cure the issue....

why don't all you guys use that video as a reference?
I made it as proof to show to my dealer, because in at the end of the day you can explain as much as you like in very clear words, if he can't see it, he can't judge about it.
And showing a forum thread of 52 pages...you can predict it aint gonna be read, nor should he.

Just show you dealer the video, its made for that reason, it helped me, so why not all the affected owners here, I think I've posted my video here about 3-4 times.

When looking at youtube and cannot see another similar video of the issue, so I am beginning to think that the issue isn't as wide spread as we might think.
As I also said, many pages before, we have no idea what so ever about the share of affected bikes against the total units sold worldwide...

I've done my share, by bringing it to the dealer, informing him about the issue so that he can inform Honda about the issue.
So far, Honda hasn't collected the affected parts of my bike for investigation nor has there been a recall for it, so for all that matters, we might actually be a minority.

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12-13-2017 09:23 AM
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Guth Offline
Forum Founder

Portland, OR
Posts: 3,918
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #602
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
Riko, sometimes in a thread this size it's easy for content to get overlooked as you've alluded to. Try not to take it personally, I'll bet that your video will be of assistance to someone else. I'm not sure how you would define wide spread in this case. Sales of this bike have been rather minuscule for Honda, so with this problem being experienced by only a subset of people who bought the bike, it's safe to say that the number of bikes involved is relatively small even if the percentage of bikes involved is higher than a manufacturer would like.

The Honda CB1100: STILL air-COOLed
Deposit placed 11/12/2012.
Received delivery 04/05/2013.
12-13-2017 09:37 AM
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pdedse Offline
Been There

Oregon
Posts: 3,243
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #603
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
(12-13-2017 09:23 AM)Riko Wrote:  ...

why don't all you guys use that video as a reference?
I made it as proof to show to my dealer, because in at the end of the day you can explain as much as you like in very clear words, if he can't see it, he can't judge about it....

Thanks for the reminder, Riko. I initially didn't have in mind to show the video because mine never stalled like yours, but now I think that yours was just showing a more "advanced" condition than mine.

So I will show both dealership and Honda CS. I'll email it to the rep I talked to at Honda CS; she encouraged updates. But she was insistent that it has to start with the dealer actually making a diagnosis. I was reluctant to do that after talking with the service manager who stated that without an engine warning light and without being able to duplicate the issue, he wasn't confident of finding a definitive answer after a 1 hr = $115 diagosis. Since my bike wouldn't exhibit the problem at the time I took the bike in, I didn't want to pay $115 for "we couldn't find anything wrong with the bike". I gave it every chance to heat up so that it would show high/low idle, but it behaved well. And--although I'm not fully convinced it is weather related--mine hasn't acted up the last 4 rides of 1-2 hours in temps of 40-50 degrees. Maybe my last "fix" of cleaning the Throttle Position Sensor connector worked...probably it didn't. But since then, I have had only two slight dipping instances below 1000rpm to maybe 850 on a completely warm-up engine, but cool ambient temp. Both times the slightly low idle returned to normal upon shutting down and restarting.

I need my bike to either be more consistent in its failure, or wait for warmer weather to see if that brings about the issue again...consistently. I will email your video to them. But you know they are going to say "that's fine, but we need to see your bike".

I do wonder about your dealer's fix: if I remember right, they replaced the whole throttle assembly. I assume because they couldn't really pinpoint the area, and thus it was cheaper to do a "blanket fix". While doing so, they would have disconnected the TPS from the throttle assembly. Forum member JDVALERO reports that wiring was crimped within his TPS connector. "Fixing that" (not sure what that means, maybe straitening?) has cured his bike of idle issues. I cleaned mine...yours was likely disconnected with throttle assembly. I ask myself, is this a question of a fouled TPS (wiring getting pinched, dirty--I don't know, just guessing) where it connects to throttle assembly? Time will tell for me, I guess.

The big difference between your situation and mine is that yours was under warranty. Mine is not. So, even if I show the dealer your video, they will want to see my bike, maybe they will conclude the same: replace throttle assembly. What happens then? Will I pay that ($3000+) with no assurances from Honda that they will come through and cover that? No, but if I can go to Honda and say my dealer confirms the fix is throttle assembly just like yours, that will be considered perhaps.

So that's the plan. I do thank you for the video. It will be used.

(12-13-2017 09:37 AM)Guth Wrote:  ... it's safe to say that the number of bikes involved is relatively small even if the percentage of bikes involved is higher than a manufacturer would like.

...and the percentage of bikes involved is definetly higher than what certain owners would like.
Smile
Trying to maintain a sense of humor about the whole thing.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2017 10:52 AM by pdedse.)
12-13-2017 10:49 AM
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Guth Offline
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Portland, OR
Posts: 3,918
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Post: #604
CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
(12-13-2017 10:49 AM)pdedse Wrote:  ...and the percentage of bikes involved is definetly higher than what certain owners would like.

Oh, without a doubt.



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The Honda CB1100: STILL air-COOLed
Deposit placed 11/12/2012.
Received delivery 04/05/2013.
12-13-2017 11:03 AM
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The ferret Online
Forum Moderator

Ohio
Posts: 31,279
Joined: Apr 2013
Post: #605
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
"I need my bike to either be more consistent in its failure, or wait for warmer weather to see if that brings about the issue again...consistently"


Lol my bike is running good and I can't stand it

.
Defender of the Realm
2014 DLX (the pleasure horse)
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12-13-2017 11:19 AM
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Riko Offline
High Mileage

Belgium
Posts: 1,024
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #606
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
(12-13-2017 09:37 AM)Guth Wrote:  Sales of this bike have been rather minuscule for Honda,

I'm still eager to know what the sales figures are worldwide of this bike since 2010, when the bike came out in Japan untill now where its available worldwide.

[align=center][b]CB[color=#FFD700]1100[/color][color=#FF0000]EX[/color][/b]
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12-13-2017 12:43 PM
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pdedse Offline
Been There

Oregon
Posts: 3,243
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #607
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
(12-13-2017 11:19 AM)The ferret Wrote:  "I need my bike to either be more consistent in its failure, or wait for warmer weather to see if that brings about the issue again...consistently"


Lol my bike is running good and I can't stand it

Arg! ROFL We all should have such the dilema!
12-13-2017 01:06 PM
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The ferret Online
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Ohio
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Post: #608
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
(12-13-2017 12:43 PM)Riko Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 09:37 AM)Guth Wrote:  Sales of this bike have been rather minuscule for Honda,

I'm still eager to know what the sales figures are worldwide of this bike since 2010, when the bike came out in Japan untill now where its available worldwide.

Riko, you will never know those figures because Honda won't release them. I even asked a contact I had at Honda in 2015 and he wouldn't or couldn't say. It is important enough for Honda to be in it's 8th year of continual production, so it must be selling "alright" to them.

.
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2014 DLX (the pleasure horse)
2021 NC750X DCT (Angry Bird)
12-13-2017 02:16 PM
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Riko Offline
High Mileage

Belgium
Posts: 1,024
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #609
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
thats my feeling as well, worldwide, in 7 years, they sold many units....but what is 'many' of course.

From all those units sold I'm thinking the ones with the idle issues must be marginal because as it is Honda doesn't do anything or at least recognize any issue.

The bike hasn't even changed mechanically from 2010 untill the EX/DLX models, thats untill 2017 when they went a bit further, but even than the actueal engine is basically the same.
As far as I know, the only mechanical parts that changed were the exhausts.
Single sided to Single + dual and now the 2017 models with different dual sided design.
And a slipper clutch.

Engine wise I have to recognise that all pré 2017 update models were Euro 3, while the 2017 models are Euro 4....but if that translates in new components that could lie at the root of these idle issues, who knows...

[align=center][b]CB[color=#FFD700]1100[/color][color=#FF0000]EX[/color][/b]
Cool spoked wheels Cool

Follow [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=7489][i]The Belgian Build[/i][/url][/align]
12-13-2017 03:17 PM
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Guth Offline
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Portland, OR
Posts: 3,918
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Post: #610
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
I figure that I stand about as much chance of learning what those sales figures are as I do getting my hands on the gorgeous 4-into-1 exhaust that was featured on the CB1100F concept bike shown in Tokyo back in 2007. Big Grin

I've come to the conclusion that Honda created the CB1100 primarily for Honda themselves and for others who share a passion for Honda's history. I'm guessing that the sales figures are of little concern to them when it comes to this bike. Looking back in time, every once in a while Honda has decided to create something to celebrate their history or their engineering prowess (or both). Such projects often result in products that I happen to find incredibly appealing. For whatever reason it seems that the market overall hasn't reacted nearly as enthusiastically. So it goes with the CB1100. The only market that I can imagine might have exceeded Honda's expectations for this bike in terms of sales would be the Japanese market. But again, I don't think Honda is sweating it one way or the other. All of which makes me that much more grateful that they decided to share this bike with those of us here in North America in the first place. The fact that they've brought the bike back in 2017 only strengthens those feelings for me.

The Honda CB1100: STILL air-COOLed
Deposit placed 11/12/2012.
Received delivery 04/05/2013.
12-13-2017 09:39 PM
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