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CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
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Dave Offline
High Mileage

San Diego, ca
Posts: 934
Joined: Jan 2014
Post: #681
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
I used the CB to run errands Saturday morning. Turned off, and restarted the motor 7 times. While not stop-and-go city driving, it was still around town that required probably twenty stops and starts, each that caused the engine to idle for the length of an average stoplight. Temperature was in the low seventies. Approximate total miles were 15. Bike ran perfectly, idling at exactly 1050 RPM each time. It’s too early to conclude that the idle problem is 100% cured at this time, but it is looking good. I will post new information as I add up the miles.
01-16-2018 09:34 PM
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Dave Offline
High Mileage

San Diego, ca
Posts: 934
Joined: Jan 2014
Post: #682
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
Update: Tightening the loose throttlebody connection clamps does not cure the low idle problem. Here’s a description of my experience with the low idle condition returning last evening. The temperature was in the low 60’s. Bike started normally, and I proceeded 1 mile to the freeway, stopping at two stop lights, where the idle was normal. Proceeded 28 miles on the freeway, averaging 70 mph, and exited. Immediately at the first stop light the idle dropped to 700 RPM, and worked its back up to approximately 1,000 RPM. I proceeded about 2 miles to my destination, stopping at 4 more stop lights and each time he 700 RPM condition returned. When I reached my destination I put the bike in neutral and revved the engine several times; each time the 700 RPM condition returned. I turned the engine off with the key, restarted it, and no change. I turned the engine off again; turned the key to “on” and performed the TPS reset procedure, and then turned the key off. I restarted the bike and it was running perfectly. Note: I have performed this exact same TPS reset procedure several times in the past when the low idle condition occurred and it never worked before. The bike sat for approximately 2 hours before I restarted it for my return trip. It started normally, and idled fine at the first stop, approximately 100 yards away. Stopping at the next light, approximately 200 yards away, the low idle condition returned. I put the bike in neutral and revved it several times with no change, except this time it stalled once. I performed the TPS reset as described above and the problem was cured. I proceeded to the freeway and stopped at three more lights, where the idle was fine. The temperature was now in the mid 50’s, and I rode the freeway 28 miles, averaging 70 mph. Exiting the freeway and at the first 2 stop lights the idle dipped lower than normal, but not to 700 RPM, and worked its way back up. When I reached home, 1 mile from the freeway, the 700 RPM condition returned. I again revved the engine in neutral, with no change in idle speed. In my opinion, when the low idle condition returns the engine seems to be running lean, because it does not respond to throttle input as readily. I turned the engine off with the key and restarted it with no change. I performed the TPS reset described above and the low idle condition was cured. I next turned the engine off and unplugged the TPS, and restarted it. I was idling at approximately 1,000 RPM, but throttle response was weak, very similar to the response when the low idle condition was present. I revved the engine several times with the TPS unconnected, and it would return to approximately 1,000 RPM each time, but the throttle response remained weak. (The check engine light was illuminated.) I turned the engine off and plugged the TPS back in and restarted it, and it was running perfectly again. There was a very obvious difference in throttle response from when the TPS was disconnected. I revved the motor several times, and each time it returned to a perfect 1,050 RPM. I turned the engine off and parked the bike. Note: When the low idle condition returns the engine speed drops much quicker than normal, which I noticed especially when shifting gears because the immediate drop to low RPM when shifting causes noisy shifts, caused by the chain slack loosening and tightening. So in summary, tightening the loose throttlebody clamps does not cure the low idle condition.
01-18-2018 06:17 AM
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pdedse Offline
Been There

Oregon
Posts: 3,244
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #683
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
Dave, been meaning to ask, what year is yours? '13, or '14 standard or dlx?
01-18-2018 11:06 AM
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peterbaron Offline
Lives On Two Wheels

ON, Canada
Posts: 9,148
Joined: Jan 2016
Post: #684
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
1. MOST common mistake in trying to "repair/find" problems is replacing parts, more parts... or complete segment/ass-y prior diagnosing. So even if the presumed problem is fixed with guaranteed 100%, no one knows what was wrong.Angry
2. Watching 5 min video clip/idle up and down tells me what tach is doing, instead of where eventual problem is located.
3. Most members are not troubleshooting oriented (normality, they have their skills in different fields), so a lot of the information they provide is of less or no value
4. WHAT tech would love to know prior making decision is : actual reading report when it occurs (RPM, temp, V, Amps, injection time++++ = service data live stream, DTC status = history, pending or active, freeze frame data, when/how it happens...long, short rides, almost warmed up, only hot, how often...once a month... ANY modifications done to your bike ( PC, bypass O2 sensor, electronic or/and MFI related mods), any work already done to your bike in regards to this problem...
5. Would be excellent if tech has long Honda motorcycle experience and is electrically smart. Techs are people who would like to face the issue in reality, touch it, instead of having describing/filming/narrating it by members
5. Hope this RPM/stalling issue is not related to upcoming ECM update/reprogramming/recall/campaign by Japan HMC
6. If problems are not common, is more difficult to find/rectify them
7. Hope you ride your bike often , not 500 miles/year, use FI cleaner and fuel stabiliser for LONGER storage - not necessarily winter storage
8. How many members did visit HONDA or qualified service center and speak with tech personally??
9. The bottom line is (I know is not easy/simple): diagnose it right and fix it at the first time

This is NOT or about to criticize anybody's/members effort in finding problem but to provide more essential/valued technical info.
Hope this GENERAL info will help to understand the complexity in finding MFI/electrical solutions (not only TPS)

pb

"Drop a gear and disappear"®
'14 CB1100 DLX-#170 ® 26K kms (FOX - pleasure horse)
'14 CB1100/ABS ® 113K kms (MYSHOL - white draft horse)
'13 CB1100/c-ABS - 56K kms - sold
*Grand Chancellor*
01-18-2018 01:38 PM
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Dave Offline
High Mileage

San Diego, ca
Posts: 934
Joined: Jan 2014
Post: #685
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
(01-18-2018 11:06 AM)pdedse Wrote:  Dave, been meaning to ask, what year is yours? '13, or '14 standard or dlx?

2014 Dlx.
01-18-2018 06:02 PM
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beardyweirdy@me.com Offline
Running Like a Top

London
Posts: 395
Joined: Aug 2014
Post: #686
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
Just pondering but... I wonder if you guys in the USA posted your ECU's to a European or Asian Honda Service centre, where they have the updated software, they could update it for you, off the bike?
Got to be worth an ask. Would love to see your problem fixed Dave. It's so frustrating seeing you having problems when there seems to be a working solution in other countries.
01-19-2018 04:22 PM
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pdedse Offline
Been There

Oregon
Posts: 3,244
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #687
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
(01-19-2018 04:22 PM)beardyweirdy@me.com Wrote:  ...I wonder if you guys in the USA posted your ECU's to a European or Asian Honda Service centre, where they have the updated software, they could update it for you, off the bike?...

I can kind of wrap my mind around that idea, but would you care to paint a more vidid picture? What does "posting a ECU to a service center" mean exactly?
01-19-2018 04:45 PM
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Cormanus Offline
Moderator

Queensland, Australia
Posts: 20,660
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #688
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
pdedse, it would be the same as taking the ECU out of the bike and sending it to Don Guhl to be reflashed, except that you would send it to a Honda dealer in Europe.
01-19-2018 05:06 PM
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beardyweirdy@me.com Offline
Running Like a Top

London
Posts: 395
Joined: Aug 2014
Post: #689
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
(01-19-2018 04:45 PM)pdedse Wrote:  
(01-19-2018 04:22 PM)beardyweirdy@me.com Wrote:  ...I wonder if you guys in the USA posted your ECU's to a European or Asian Honda Service centre, where they have the updated software, they could update it for you, off the bike?...

I can kind of wrap my mind around that idea, but would you care to paint a more vidid picture? What does "posting a ECU to a service center" mean exactly?

It maybe that the ECU needs to be connected to the bike... This bit I'm not sure about. One we've ascertained if this is possible, or there is a work around, this is what I had in mind...

Whip the ECU off the bike:
1)Tank off, 5 mins. 10mm and 12mm sockets
2)Unplug ECU and remove, 5 mins including tea break - No tools
3)Replace Tank, 5 mins including drifting off into your own world to ponder what if....

Sending to Honda Service Centre:
4) Take ECU to Post Office/Fed Ex.
Place ECU in suitable size box, with packing and write address of Service centre on the box, or give it to the shipping clerk and inform them of the recipients address.

You'd need to contact the Service Centre first to check its ok with them before you send it, also, arranging some sort of return postage. You'll most likely need to pay them for their time and the return postage. This can be done via Pay Pal or using a Credit/Debit card via the phone or email.

I'd suggest affixing a secure label to the ECU which has your Name, Address, Tel. No. and or Email Address. Also, maybe on the rear of the ECU the year and Model of your Bike. If you can squeeze it on, possibly a note to say
"This ECU requires updating with the latest software, due to low Idle problem"

Finding a Honda Dealer that you can use may require a bit of emailing around after research on the internet or put the call out on a forum... such as this one... to see if anyone in Asia or Europe could find you a dealer to do the job. If there is a language problem, maybe the forum member could help out.

If there is a dealer out there who is prepared to do this and it works, then I'm sure it would be worth their while financially, as there are a few people in the USA who might like to get it done.

Could be worth a shot...

Note: Useful to add on the fed ex customs form that the item is for repair to avoid having it stopped in customs and an import duty being applied. UK customs are fairly keen in this regard.
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2018 05:31 PM by beardyweirdy@me.com.)
01-19-2018 05:28 PM
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pdedse Offline
Been There

Oregon
Posts: 3,244
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #690
RE: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
Ah...so "post" simply means "to mail" for the British? Haha...I think at some level I knew that, but it just wan't registering.
01-19-2018 07:25 PM
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